| Pages in topic: < [1 2] | Off topic: Clarity of English song lyrics Thread poster: Nesrin
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| Shame on you Xavier84 | Mar 2, 2012 |
You've just spoiled one of my favourite songs for me!
I am now looking forward to doing the same to various friends....
LOL
Seriously though, the Noël Cowards and the Flanders and Swans of this world were singing songs where the wit of the words and the virtuosity of their articulation were uppermost in their performance (very worthy in this tradition are the Colombian Ospina brothers recently cited in th... See more You've just spoiled one of my favourite songs for me!
I am now looking forward to doing the same to various friends....
LOL
Seriously though, the Noël Cowards and the Flanders and Swans of this world were singing songs where the wit of the words and the virtuosity of their articulation were uppermost in their performance (very worthy in this tradition are the Colombian Ospina brothers recently cited in these fora - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xyp7xt-ygy0 - for Spanish speakers only I'm afraid). I don't think the words are such a priority in the other examples we are talking about.
Noni ▲ Collapse
| | | | David Wright 
Austria
Local time: 17:14
German to English
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| Wonderful toipic | Mar 3, 2012 |
Great opportunity to ramble on about how things were better in the good old days and to be more than patronising about the younger generations.
Since when has the cirteria of comprehensibility been applicable to singing? Or do you all understand the lyrics of the operas you listen to?
| | | | Heinrich Pesch
Finland
Local time: 18:14
Member (2003)
Finnish to German
+ ...
| Try Danish for comparison | Mar 3, 2012 |
I believe Danish children sometimes have difficulties in understanding their parents. I watch Danish tv-serials regularly but would be lost without the Finnish or Swedish subtitles. And that is supposed to be normal speech.
I think this may be a global phenomen. In movies from pre-1960 ages the speech is like on the stage of a theater. But modern movies often require subtitles in the original language. Or one has to turn the volume button to "11". Not nice for the neighbors.
... See more I believe Danish children sometimes have difficulties in understanding their parents. I watch Danish tv-serials regularly but would be lost without the Finnish or Swedish subtitles. And that is supposed to be normal speech.
I think this may be a global phenomen. In movies from pre-1960 ages the speech is like on the stage of a theater. But modern movies often require subtitles in the original language. Or one has to turn the volume button to "11". Not nice for the neighbors.
Nowadays the speech of the underclasses is pop and even the upper class tries to imitate the "man of the street". ▲ Collapse
| | | | Alison Sabedoria (X)
United Kingdom
French to English
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| I love Ken Lee! | Mar 3, 2012 |
During my fifteen-or-so years as a singing teacher in Bimingham, I taught students from a wide range of backgrounds and styles. Amongst the pop singers, many of whom spoke pure Brummie, there was an odd belief that sounding like they had just emerged from the mid-Atlantic made them sound cool (no, just sloppy and wet).
But unintelligible words are a problem in classical music, too. Singers are often taught via Italian - all beautifully pure and open - which then becomes rounded int... See more During my fifteen-or-so years as a singing teacher in Bimingham, I taught students from a wide range of backgrounds and styles. Amongst the pop singers, many of whom spoke pure Brummie, there was an odd belief that sounding like they had just emerged from the mid-Atlantic made them sound cool (no, just sloppy and wet).
But unintelligible words are a problem in classical music, too. Singers are often taught via Italian - all beautifully pure and open - which then becomes rounded into a nice, polite "plummy" sound. For the easiest musical sound, everything needs to be as close as possible to the yawning "aaah". Melody is often seen as superior to text, so the same mouth shapes are then applied to all languages, which get smoothed out into what can only be called "Singerese". It's physically impossible to sing intelligible words outside of a certain frequency range, which means that much of the repertoire (with all those silly high notes) is a lost cause anyway... 
The cure? Text, text and more text!!! My students often complained bitterly at first, but I made them work on the words until they would stand alone, as declamed poetry, without the music - a good way of sorting out whether the text makes sense or not! They then worked on the wordless melody until they could sing it like a meaningful instrumental piece. When they understood, and could express, the nuances of both, then the whole lot could be fitted back together (small light bulb usually clicks on at this point).
Inevitably, singers sometimes get asked to sing in a language they don't know, and I'm as guilty as the rest of having skated on very thin ice occasionally: Bulgarian, Balinese, Greek... (I admitted defeat with Xhosa - couldn't get the clicks right). But, unlike that unfortunate woman singing "Ken Lee", I've always had help from some kind person who knows... 
(Somebody kick my soap box out from under me, please!) ▲ Collapse
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| It's the whole point of rock music | Mar 3, 2012 |
It's all here.
http://www.iorr.org/talk/read.php?1,657240
Of course you're NOT supposed to understand the lyrics. Where would the fun be? For years as a kid I used imagine Iggy was claiming to be 'the world's worst cabin boy" in Search and Destroy. And that he was warning us "Look out honey because of Newton's technolog... See more It's all here.
http://www.iorr.org/talk/read.php?1,657240
Of course you're NOT supposed to understand the lyrics. Where would the fun be? For years as a kid I used imagine Iggy was claiming to be 'the world's worst cabin boy" in Search and Destroy. And that he was warning us "Look out honey because of Newton's technology".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxKhSbwQJsc
I also thought the Ramons were saying "Her breath smells of Aftermint" whereas they were saying "Slugs and snails are after me."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yNxjYqlvrA
You can have Noel Coward, I'll hang on to:
Now I guess I'll have to tell'em
That I got no cerebellum
Gonna get my PhD
I'm a teenage lobotomy ▲ Collapse
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 16:14
Member (2008)
Italian to English
| neilmac
Spain
Local time: 17:14
Spanish to English
+ ...
One contributory element is that English is a stress-timed language.
This means we can utter 8 syllables in the same time it takes to utter 2.
For example, "back door" (2 words/2 stressed syllables) and "there was a man in the garden" (7 words, 8 syllables but only 2 of them stressed) take exactly the same amount of time to pronounce.
Try it yourself and see.
What happens is that "structure" words (those without standalone meaning) become compressed or elided, which c... See more One contributory element is that English is a stress-timed language.
This means we can utter 8 syllables in the same time it takes to utter 2.
For example, "back door" (2 words/2 stressed syllables) and "there was a man in the garden" (7 words, 8 syllables but only 2 of them stressed) take exactly the same amount of time to pronounce.
Try it yourself and see.
What happens is that "structure" words (those without standalone meaning) become compressed or elided, which can make comprehension quite difficult for speakers of syllable-timed languages (like Spanish).
There are several other factors, but this one is especially important in terms of speakers of non-stress timed languages. ▲ Collapse
| | | | neilmac
Spain
Local time: 17:14
Spanish to English
+ ...
Slightly off-topic, but just as I started reading this post, the great Dino himself came on the the radio, which is unusual because it's BBC Six Music, and it's not the kind of stuff they normally broadcast...
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| even worse... | Mar 3, 2012 |
when you listen to music (or "music" some would say) with growled or screamed vocals... 
| | | | Simona Pop
Romania
Local time: 18:14
Member (2017)
English to Romanian
+ ...
| at least she is happy :)) | Mar 3, 2012 |
Lisa Simpson, MCIL wrote: I think I may have wet myself!
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Lisa Simpson, MCIL wrote: I think I may have wet myself!
Was that a soramimi or a mondegreen?
M
[Edited at 2012-03-04 21:29 GMT]
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