| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5] | Off topic: Clichés, anyone? (1) "I shall not rest" (2) "tireless/tirelessly" Thread poster: Mervyn Henderson (X)
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Giles Watson 
Italy
Local time: 03:38
Italian to English
In memoriam | So what else is new? | May 12, 2014 |
Phil Hand wrote:
There's a nice technical challenge in my pair: good Chinese style basically consists of stringing together cliches in context-appropriate ways. Where in English we might be impressed by a writer with a wide vocabulary, who chooses just the right word, in Chinese they're impressed by a writer with a large store of cliches, who uses just the right well-known-phrase-or-saying.
And in Ancient Greek, each literary genre has its own "context-appropriate" dialect.
Classical poets writing epic poetry, for example, wouldn't do so in the Attic or Doric dialects, even if they were from Athens or Sparta, and certainly not if they were non-native speaking βάρβαροι 
| | | | Phil Hand
China
Local time: 09:38
Chinese to English
| A translator's work is never done... | May 13, 2014 |
Giles Watson wrote: And in Ancient Greek, each literary genre has its own "context-appropriate" dialect. Classical poets writing epic poetry, for example, wouldn't do so in the Attic or Doric dialects, even if they were from Athens or Sparta, and certainly not if they were non-native speaking βάρβαροι
Writers: making things difficult for translators for thousands of years. I think we should launch a class action suit against writers for having too many linguistic tricks.
| | | | Michele Fauble
United States
Local time: 18:38
Member (2006)
Norwegian to English
+ ...
Texte Style wrote:
In French, one of my pet hates is "au jour d'aujourd'hui". Even without understanding a word you can tell that there's needless repetition. Literally "on the day of today".
'Aujourd'hui' itself originally meant 'on the day of today', 'au jour d'hui', 'hui' being the original French word for 'today', (from Latin 'hodie', cognate with Italian 'oggi', Spanish 'hoy'). So etymologically 'au jour d'aujourd'hui' is 'on the day of on the day of today'. Needless repetition indeed!
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 02:38
Member (2008)
Italian to English
Tôm M wrote:
I vote for (usually middle-aged or older) men (yes, usually men) who drone endlessly about 'young people these days'.
It's no less tedious than your parents' and grandparents' moans about your generation's use of language.
A well-balanced chap: he has a chip on both shoulders.
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Fiona_N
Germany
Local time: 03:38
German to English
| real and unreal | May 13, 2014 |
Phil Hand wrote:
There's a nice technical challenge in my pair: good Chinese style basically consists of stringing together cliches in context-appropriate ways. Where in English we might be impressed by a writer with a wide vocabulary, who chooses just the right word, in Chinese they're impressed by a writer with a large store of cliches, who uses just the right well-known-phrase-or-saying.
That does sounds like a challenge! I have similar experience translating German to English, especially in an academic context. I have the feeling that in the English speaking world, expressing your ideas clearly and simply is a mark of clear thinking and, ultimately, intelligence. If an academic uses language that is needlessly complicated I tend to immediately wonder: does this person know what they are talking about?
In Germany, the academic world seems to prize long sentences with as many ideas wedged into them as possible. I knew a Professor who was being considered by the University for a post. The hiring board had reservations as they felt his writing style was too simple and his sentences too short. He got the job but his sentences became a lot more complicated after that...
As for clichés I wouldn't mind getting rid of, I nominate the utterly vacuous "in a very real way...", e.g. "I feel that this party can, in a very real way, contribute to turning the country around". Maddening!
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Rachel Fell wrote:
I've noticed politicians consciously avoiding the term "hard-working" in recent months on the radio;
I haven't ( ), and I would draw your attention to Labour's campaign slogan.
Thing is, I know I'm not the only one annoyed by this (it's had the urine extracted more than once on R4 to name but one source - so much so that there was a danger that harping on about it would itself become a comedy cliché) and they've gone and done it anyway.
And I may be wrong, but is using likely when it is felt probably would probably be a more likely choice in RP really a cliché....?
| | | | Kay Denney
France
Local time: 03:38
French to English
| "chop through the impenetrable forest of un-words to free the princess of meaning slumbering therein | May 13, 2014 |
Charlie Bavington wrote: Rachel Fell wrote:
I've noticed politicians consciously avoiding the term "hard-working" in recent months on the radio;
I haven't ( ), and I would draw your attention to Labour's campaign slogan. Thing is, I know I'm not the only one annoyed by this (it's had the urine extracted more than once on R4 to name but one source - so much so that there was a danger that harping on about it would itself become a comedy cliché) and they've gone and done it anyway. And I may be wrong, but is using likely when it is felt probably would probably be a more likely choice in RP really a cliché....?
Perhaps Rachel is listening more to the Tories, who might be trying not to refer to Labour's slogan?
Love this article anyway:
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/may/09/labour-david-axelrod-yoda-political-messages
[Edited at 2014-05-13 10:22 GMT]
[Edited at 2014-05-13 10:53 GMT]
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 02:38
Member (2008)
Italian to English
| Not only Labour | May 13, 2014 |
Charlie Bavington wrote: Rachel Fell wrote:
I've noticed politicians consciously avoiding the term "hard-working" in recent months on the radio;
I haven't ( ), and I would draw your attention to Labour's campaign slogan. Thing is, I know I'm not the only one annoyed by this (it's had the urine extracted more than once on R4 to name but one source - so much so that there was a danger that harping on about it would itself become a comedy cliché) and they've gone and done it anyway. And I may be wrong, but is using likely when it is felt probably would probably be a more likely choice in RP really a cliché....?
Let me maintain a political balance by saying that the other parties are equally fond of saying "hardworking families" etc.
I suppose none of them can bring themselves to saying "the working classes" or the Obama-esque "middle class".
Going forward, of course.
[Edited at 2014-05-13 15:40 GMT]
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Tom in London wrote: Charlie Bavington wrote: Rachel Fell wrote:
I've noticed politicians consciously avoiding the term "hard-working" in recent months on the radio;
I haven't ( ), and I would draw your attention to Labour's campaign slogan. Let me maintain a political balance by saying that the other parties are equally fond of saying "hardworking families" etc.
I agree that they are all fond of *saying* it. If you can bear to listen/watch without smashing the radio/TV, you'll hear it all the time. I imagine tomorrow between 12 and 12.30 will be awash with HWF; it often is (PMQs). My point was that despite the general public being fed up with it, no matter where they are on the bone idle/Stakhanovite continuum, only one party so far has put it on a flipping poster. Still, I suppose with their name, they feel they get first dibs
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