Subtitles in SRT files - productivity and word rate Thread poster: Miranda Glasbergen
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I would like some advice on what is a fair word rate for subtitle translation, as compared to more straightforward work such as translation of user documentation for a software product.
The source files I'm talking about are properly transcribed .SRT files, so the timecodes and source text are supposedly correct and appropriate. In essence it is "just a translation job" (no transcription needed), but I assume that there is still a lot of extra work making the translation nice and s... See more I would like some advice on what is a fair word rate for subtitle translation, as compared to more straightforward work such as translation of user documentation for a software product.
The source files I'm talking about are properly transcribed .SRT files, so the timecodes and source text are supposedly correct and appropriate. In essence it is "just a translation job" (no transcription needed), but I assume that there is still a lot of extra work making the translation nice and short, fitting it within the two lines, and concise enough so that the viewer still has time to actually watch the video, instead of having their eyes glued only to the subtitle!
So it seems to me that this is more work than for example translating user guides for a software program.
If your word rate for straightforward documentation translation was 10 cents, what would you ask for subtitle translation as described above? 20% extra (12 cents)? 50% extra (15 cents)?
I have no previous subtitling experience, so I would appreciate some input from experienced translators. Hope you can help! ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Sometimes... | Oct 16, 2013 |
It's worth applying per hour rates.
Let's wait for José Henrique Lamensdorf to appear here.
| | | | | Word rate or hourly rate | Oct 16, 2013 |
Hi Sergei,
Right, from what I've read I understand that subtitling is often paid hourly, IF you're doing the entire process starting with the transcription. But here, the transcription is already done, so I'm really looking for an idea what would be fair word rates.
| | | | Cécile A.-C.
United States
Local time: 20:57
Member (2010)
Portuguese to French
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| No, it is by minute | Oct 16, 2013 |
You charge between US$3.50/mn with a script and $4.00/mn without one for general conversation subtitling if very technical it can be $4.50/mn and $5.00/mm for someone with experience. For a beginner, I would suggest to start between $3.00/mn and $3.50/mn.
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| RSVP? Present! | Oct 16, 2013 |
Sergei Leshchinsky wrote: It's worth applying per hour rates. Let's wait for José Henrique Lamensdorf to appear here.
Personally, I dislike hourly rates, unless special circumstances apply (see below).
I'll give you my classic DTP example.
I've been using PageMaker for some 25 years. I can do most anything with it in a snap. So if a client assigns me a challenging DTP job using PageMaker, I'll get it done in just a few heartbeats, and get grossly underpaid for all those years I invested in mastering it.
Now if that client gives me that very same job, however demanding that it be done using QuarkXpress (saw it once, just to extract a picture), this client will be grossly overcharged by the many hours I'll spend reading manuals and help screens.
In fact, we are selling our time. BTW I've started writing a book on time management for freelance translators. However the client is not buying our time (except in the cases below); they are buying a job completed. Therefore I think it's bad business to charge a low hourly rate for something that, not being proficient at doing it, we'll take a whale of time to do. The client will end up spending the same they would with a more skilled operator, but we'll have wasted our time.
So I avoid charging by the hour as often as I can.
Charging by the hour makes sense when you are requested to be available, doing whatever you are able to do. The most typical case is live interpreting. I always compare the two Peters. If your interpretee speaks like a spitfire Tom Peters, or drawls his speech like the late Peter Drucker did, it doesn't matter: you must be there for X hours, interpreting whatever they say. And in case your interpretee fails to show up, you get paid exactly the same, just for having been there, waiting.
Regarding the present case, maybe I wouldn't be a good source of information. I usually (like I'm doing now) translate script-less video. I think translating for subtitles from previously transcribed, segmented, and timed script is an effective way to displease spectators. Subtitles in another language, possibly with a different phrasal structure, must preserve the video rhythm. Unless the languages are similar in structure, e.g. PT/ES/IT/FR, this rhythm will be necessarily broken.
As I came into subtitling (since 2004) from the dubbing (since 1987) realm, I'm kinda obsessed with the video rhythm. Perhaps more assembly-line oriented subtitles have another way to do it.
To make matters worse, the first client who invited me to take a shot at translation for dubbing, led me to find an innate talent I had. The very first video I translated for dubbing is still around, and it was dubbed verbatim as I translated it. At that time, the dubbers said it was a piece of cake to do it. So my method may yield great quality, however it's probably not as efficient as it should be. And, of course, it's "unteachable".
This leads me to charge always the same rate per minute of playing time for any video work. It makes sense, as my method takes the same time to do anything. Of course, I'm not competitive at all for transcription; they only hire me when sound quality is awful, because they know I have my ways of fixing it.
| | | | | Thanks everyone... | Oct 16, 2013 |
For all the quick responses, great to get such instant feedback. Jose, your comments on hourly rates are very interesting.
I'm still looking though for an answer to my original question - basically I'm looking for a ratio of effort (and deducing from there a ratio of payment) if we compare subtitling translation with straightforward doc translation.
My gut feeling is that, if the script is good, a trans... See more For all the quick responses, great to get such instant feedback. Jose, your comments on hourly rates are very interesting.
I'm still looking though for an answer to my original question - basically I'm looking for a ratio of effort (and deducing from there a ratio of payment) if we compare subtitling translation with straightforward doc translation.
My gut feeling is that, if the script is good, a translator probably needs something like 150% of their time compared with straightforward doc translation, but that is a total guess.
I know this is a bit like comparing apples to oranges, but the unifying factor is that both tasks CAN be expressed in words (even if that is not customary).
If I have to translate 100 words of doc, I might charge 100 * 10 cents.
If I have to translate 100 words of subtitles, I might charge 100 * ??? cents? ▲ Collapse
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Best way is to do a sample of 100 words and see the time taken, and then compute the rate/word based on your hourly rate.
| | | | | My two cents | Oct 17, 2013 |
Miranda,
Having started full-time subtitling after 15 years of experience as a specialist in medical translation, my thoughts might be useful to you.
I've been a full-time subtitler, taking care of both the translation and the cuing stage, for over two years now. Even if you only translate precued subtitles I really think you can't quote a subtitle translation job by the word unless the subtitling is done for corporate videos where you might come up with "dialogues" th... See more Miranda,
Having started full-time subtitling after 15 years of experience as a specialist in medical translation, my thoughts might be useful to you.
I've been a full-time subtitler, taking care of both the translation and the cuing stage, for over two years now. Even if you only translate precued subtitles I really think you can't quote a subtitle translation job by the word unless the subtitling is done for corporate videos where you might come up with "dialogues" that may be comparable to any written text although this is not always the case.
If it's subtitling for the film industry, I really think it's inappropriate to think in terms of words.
The example below can give you an immediate idea of what I'm talking about.
1. 13 words (subtitling):
Hey, man. How are you doing?
Have you heard from our mutual friend?
2. 13 words (text translation):
Clean the stopper with an alcohol swab. Remove the cap from the syringe.
Do you really think it takes the same effort to translate point 1. and point 2.? I really don't think so even if you have to fit within character limits and the like. Once you become familiar with the process, that part really comes naturally.
You have to think of subtitling as a way to transfer "ideas", "messages", "cultural settings" not single words or concepts as you might be used to doing in the translation scenario. This is a creative task. Besides, in subtitling you always end up adding or removing words because your target language requires you to either because there is not enough room or simply because that same idea is conveyed through a different metaphor or proverb in your native language.
For example, point 1. could become: "Hi, how are you? Have you heard from him?", but this is just an example.
You have to be familiar with idioms and have a deep understanding of both cultures to be a good subtitler. It takes special skills, but that doesn't mean it's harder. Of course, a bilingual person will be a faster subtitle translator than someone who isn't perfectly fluent in both languages, but you have to think of subtitling, and subtitle translation, as a completely different task than a textual translation. For this reason you either quote on a per minute of video basis or on a subtitle basis.
HTH!
Monica
[Edited at 2013-10-17 17:11 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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| @Monica - on conciseness | Oct 17, 2013 |
Monica, though we often disagree on subtitling software, I agree 100% with your post above.
One issue I'd like to raise on subtitle translation from templates is conciseness - IMO the key to good quality subtitles - as concise subtitles deliver the message, and still leave some time for the spectator to watch the action.
To illustrate, my point is that when the script says something like...
"I uphold the deepheartedly ingrained opinion that..."
a good... See more Monica, though we often disagree on subtitling software, I agree 100% with your post above.
One issue I'd like to raise on subtitle translation from templates is conciseness - IMO the key to good quality subtitles - as concise subtitles deliver the message, and still leave some time for the spectator to watch the action.
To illustrate, my point is that when the script says something like...
"I uphold the deepheartedly ingrained opinion that..."
a good subtitle should say...
"I really think that..."
Yet I received (from reputable US subtitling studios, not sweat shops) timed subtitles for translation that were merely the unabridged script broken in snippets, each of them committed to start/end times.
I did my best to compact each of those snippets, however not as effectively as I could, if I were allowed to reassemble, re-break, and re-time those phrases differently.
I understand that it is advisable to have the unabridged script, since the translator will make them more compact in different ways, depending on the options offered by the target language.
However individual word length causes different breaks.
I recently pointed out to a client from an EN-speaking country that:
"handkerchief" in PT is "lenço", while
"napkin" in PT is "guardanapo"...
... so whoever slices scripts for text translation into subtitles will never be able to predict when word length may cause issues in any of the umpteen languages they'd be requesting subtitles for.
On the lighter side, the word length issue led me to conclude that Poland must be a safer place than most others. The word for "danger" in PL is "niebezpieczeństwo", which forces any such warning sign to be BIG!
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| | | | | That's right! | Oct 17, 2013 |
Yes, José
I know what you mean. Actually, what we never agreed upon is the use of professional software as opposed to freeware. What I've always tried to point out with you without success is that while I perfectly share your views when it comes to the fact that subtitlers shouldn't expect the software to do the job for them, I highly recommend professional subtitling software to handle several scenarios that I believe would be too time-consuming with freeware. And these days where... See more Yes, José
I know what you mean. Actually, what we never agreed upon is the use of professional software as opposed to freeware. What I've always tried to point out with you without success is that while I perfectly share your views when it comes to the fact that subtitlers shouldn't expect the software to do the job for them, I highly recommend professional subtitling software to handle several scenarios that I believe would be too time-consuming with freeware. And these days where it's getting hard to get paid for what your work is worth, you really can't afford to waste your time.
Here are just a few examples:
- Your client has you cue and translate a video, then decides to remove a few scenes here and there later on. With professional software it is more practical and faster to apply offsets to several subtitles at one time while leaving the rest unchanged.
- Your client wants you to adapt the time codes to their burntin ones no matter how awkward they might appear. This can be done with just a few clicks with professional tools.
- Your client wants you to export to all formats possible. Here are a few examples:
.srt / EBU .stl / .890 / .pac / .scc / .sif / .rtf / .das / .dar / .mtl / .cip / .sbv / .vtt / .usf / .fdx / .html / .fpc / .aqt / .asc / .ass / .dat / .dks / .js / .jss / .lrc / .mpl / .ovr / .pan / .pjs / .rt / .s2k / .sami / .sbt / .smi / .son / .srf / .ssa / .sst / .ssts / .stl / .stp / .sub / .tts / .vkt / .vsf / .zeg / .txt / .xml
- Your client wants you to provide subtitles in an "image" format.
- A few tools also have quick spotting features that allow you to pre spot the titles (with minimum accuracy of course), but still better than nothing.
and many more scenarios. That said, of course a subtitler has to perfectly know what it takes to do a top notch job in terms of rhythm, syntax, character limit, reading speed etc. etc. and no software whatsoever will be able to use the brain and do that for you, but that doesn't mean you can't take advantage of a few options that really come in handy to reduce your workload or speed up your processes.
Hope this clears that for you and hope you have a nice day!
Monica
[Edited at 2013-10-17 12:43 GMT]
[Edited at 2013-10-17 12:43 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Shifted subject | Oct 17, 2013 |
Monica, FYI there is a new v6 for the (still free) Subtitle Workshop. Now it's from Bulgaria, no longer from Uruguay. It has some of the features you mention, yet my specific clientele doesn't require them. As usual, everyone's mileage may vary. I have translated its interface & manual ino PT-BR, but I guess it's useless for you (EN/RU/BG available AFAIK).
My point here is that translation for subtitling from pre-transcribed, pre-chopped, pre-timed "subtitles" from the full script a... See more Monica, FYI there is a new v6 for the (still free) Subtitle Workshop. Now it's from Bulgaria, no longer from Uruguay. It has some of the features you mention, yet my specific clientele doesn't require them. As usual, everyone's mileage may vary. I have translated its interface & manual ino PT-BR, but I guess it's useless for you (EN/RU/BG available AFAIK).
My point here is that translation for subtitling from pre-transcribed, pre-chopped, pre-timed "subtitles" from the full script are not likely to result in high quality, unless source and target languages are very close akin, and even so, conciseness is prone to be impaired (full script into a sashimi-like structure, regardless of the rhythm of the video). ▲ Collapse
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...still I understand companies need to streamline processes and that's why they use templates. The best would be to use master files and allow each subtitler to adapt to the specific circumstances.
I'll look into Subtitle Workshop, just out of curiosity.
Ciao
José Henrique Lamensdorf wrote:
Monica, FYI there is a new v6 for the (still free) Subtitle Workshop. Now it's from Bulgaria, no longer from Uruguay. It has some of the features you mention, yet my specific clientele doesn't require them. As usual, everyone's mileage may vary. I have translated its interface & manual ino PT-BR, but I guess it's useless for you (EN/RU/BG available AFAIK).
My point here is that translation for subtitling from pre-transcribed, pre-chopped, pre-timed "subtitles" from the full script are not likely to result in high quality, unless source and target languages are very close akin, and even so, conciseness is prone to be impaired (full script into a sashimi-like structure, regardless of the rhythm of the video).
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jbjb 
Estonia
Local time: 03:57
Estonian to English
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To Miranda
It all depends on what you are used to translating. You are used to software manuals and it will take you more time to translate subtitles. Well, I am used to translating subtitles and I can translate 6 pages worth of subtitles faster than 2 pages for a software manual. At least for the first months (or a year) until I get used to the specifics of software translating, speeding up my work in that area.
So right now I would say that the rate for software manuals should be 3... See more To Miranda
It all depends on what you are used to translating. You are used to software manuals and it will take you more time to translate subtitles. Well, I am used to translating subtitles and I can translate 6 pages worth of subtitles faster than 2 pages for a software manual. At least for the first months (or a year) until I get used to the specifics of software translating, speeding up my work in that area.
So right now I would say that the rate for software manuals should be 3 times higher than the rate for subtitles.
But nobody cares what I say - it is up to me to adapt to the circumstances and become proficient in the area I want to work in.
Right now you are saying that a beginner should be paid more at any work because it takes him/her more time at first and as you become more professional and faster, your salary should be lowered accordingly.
But if we assume that we have a translator who is proficient with both subtitles and doc translations, then I would say that translating 100 words for subtitles takes 25-50% less time than translating 100 words for a document.
Translating in a concise way becomes automatic and actually saves you a lot of time compared to document translations. The source material is easier in most cases.
But the rate is usually not up to you. In subtitling, companies calculate costs and are paid by the minute. So that's what translators have to go along with in large projects.
Working for a state-owned television channel with strong trade union backing may be the only exception to that rule. But if the translation is for a commercial channel/company, then the calculation of costs is in minutes 100% of the time - for the channel/company that orders the translation and for the agency doing the translating. If the translator is paid a fee that is not minute-based, it only means that the company finds it more profitable (i.e. films and series with not a lot of text where a minute-based fee would be higher than a word-based fee). ▲ Collapse
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