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in Kraftfluss
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Glossary entry

German term or phrase:

an die Gestalt von Melisbroden

English translation:

in the form of sugar loaves

Added to glossary by Ann C Sherwin
Jan 21, 2006 16:53
18 yrs ago
German term

an die Gestalt von Melisbroden

German to English Other Wine / Oenology / Viticulture 19th century
Context is a hand-copied passage from an 1864 book on winemaking:
Wendet man Rohrzucker **an die Gestalt von Melisbroden**,
so hat man überall 1/6 weniger als Traubenzucker zu
gebrauchen, um einen gleichen Alkoholgehalt zu erreichen.

With Google I got a hit suggesting that Melisbroden is an inferior type of sugar. That makes sense, but in place of "an die Gestalt" I would have expected something like "anstatt." Is this likely a case of miscopying? I am thinking of saying "rather than an inferior sugar..."
Proposed translations (English)
2 in the form of
1 +1 in the form of sugar of lesser quality

Discussion

Ann C Sherwin (asker) Jan 21, 2006:
Credit where it is due Ricki, it was you who first came up with this solution, and I like your wording better. But you didn't propose it as an answer. It was just in your agree-note to Jonathan's answer. If you will propose it now, I'll award you the KudoZ :-) But thanks also to Jonathan for pointing me to sources for Melis alone that confirmed Ricki's and ultimately my conclusion.
Ann C Sherwin (asker) Jan 21, 2006:
After following some of the answers links and doing some further research of my own, I have come to the conclusion that Melisbroden is not inferior sugar but simply sugar loaves (=an die Gestalt von Zuckerh�ten) and therefore I now have: "If you use cane sugar in the form of sugar loaves, you must use 1/6 less, overall, than [you would] glucose to obtain the same alcohol content.
Jonathan MacKerron Jan 21, 2006:
"instead of loaf sugar"
Trudy Peters Jan 21, 2006:
an Stelle von ??
Jonathan MacKerron Jan 21, 2006:
here "an die Gestalt von" denotes "in place of"

Proposed translations

3 hrs
Selected

in the form of

if you read "an die Gestalt von" as "in der Gestalt von"

But I'm only just guessing too, perhaps you should try it before you publish the recipe ;-)

PS mel(is) = honey, in Latin? so this part may refer to stickyness
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "I found this in the old dictionary Jonathan cited: "Melis war erst der Nahme eines feinen Zuckers aus Malta, Saccharum Melitense. Jetzt bedeutet es eine Art raffinirter Brote, die wieder ihre Eintheilungen hat." Elsewhere I found references to Zuckerbrot as a synonym for Zuckerhut. So it was actually my original misunderstanding of Melisbroden that got me off track. You got me back on, and I agree with your hunch that "an die Gestalt von" should have been "in der Gestalt von." There were a many other copying errors in this document, so it's not surprising. I thank both you and Jonathan for your help."
+1
1 hr

in the form of sugar of lesser quality

my guess based on several google hits
Duden for Melis =weißer Zucker verschiedener Zuckersorten. A cognate for molasses I should think.


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Note added at 1 hr (2006-01-21 18:35:13 GMT)
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1897 Muret-Sanders for Meliszucker = "(coarse) loaf sugar)"
for Melis = "It. saccharum melitense)"


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2006-01-21 18:38:42 GMT)
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also "loaf sugar" in several other ancient dictionaries

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Note added at 1 hr (2006-01-21 18:41:44 GMT)
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yes, as Ricki suggests "instead of Melisbroden"
found Broden in Flügler's 1893 dictionary = "crumbs, bits, scraps, lumps"
Peer comment(s):
agree Ricki Farn : ... // but I didn't mean "instead of" - I meant "if you use cane sugar in the form of Melisbroden, then you must use 1/6 less than when using glucose" (perhaps the gooey cheaper sugar produces more alcohol than pure glucose)
6 mins
so you're saying that "an die Gestalt von" means "in the form of" here? I'm was just guessing anyway...
Something went wrong...
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