| Էջերը այս նյութում: < [1 2 3] | "see below" answer. Is it a fair play? Շարքի հրապարակողը: Katerina O.
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Katerina O. 
Ռուսաստանի Դաշնություն
անգլերենից ռուսերեն
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TOPIC STARTER | excessive use | Dec 26, 2011 |
Ty, I believe you use this answer reasonably and thoughtfully. If it was like that in all cases I wouldn't have started this topic.
But there are users who answer a lot and often with "see below", even when it can easily be replaced. Actually my colleague (and she happens to be my friend too) does it often and can't see anything wrong with that.
In most cases it's used to make sure the explanation is read, but I guess all the other answerers presume that their explanati... See more Ty, I believe you use this answer reasonably and thoughtfully. If it was like that in all cases I wouldn't have started this topic.
But there are users who answer a lot and often with "see below", even when it can easily be replaced. Actually my colleague (and she happens to be my friend too) does it often and can't see anything wrong with that.
In most cases it's used to make sure the explanation is read, but I guess all the other answerers presume that their explanation will be read too, without having to write the "see below".
So, I should have probably named the topic differently and point to the excessive and irrelevant use of such answers.
As for the rule, I don't think many are aware of it. Otherwise there wouldn't be a Kudoz entry in English-Russian: (source) см. ниже (see below) - (target) см. еще ниже (see below the below). ▲ Collapse
| | | | | I like this word | Dec 26, 2011 |
an asker
asker means soldier in Turkish. So, to ask a soldier the meaning of a word is very amusing for me
[Edited at 2011-12-26 09:56 GMT]
| | | | Ty Kendall
Մեծ Բրիտանիա
Local time: 02:13
եբրայերենից անգլերեն
| You have to let this go.... | Dec 26, 2011 |
In an effort to walk a mile in your shoes, so to speak, I have glanced at the KudoZ questions for your language pair (English - Russian) to witness the use of см. ниже or см. еще ниже etc....and its perceived (by you) repercussions.
Whilst I can see that the same few translators are more fond of using it than others, it seems to me - on the whole - they have good reason. Without naming names, the one translator who uses it more frequently than most gives extre... See more In an effort to walk a mile in your shoes, so to speak, I have glanced at the KudoZ questions for your language pair (English - Russian) to witness the use of см. ниже or см. еще ниже etc....and its perceived (by you) repercussions.
Whilst I can see that the same few translators are more fond of using it than others, it seems to me - on the whole - they have good reason. Without naming names, the one translator who uses it more frequently than most gives extremely detailed and well researched answers. In addition, this translator actually gives you the much desired summarised term and then tags on a "см." or "см. ниже" at the end.
As an asker, I much prefer detailed answers which show how the answerer came to that answer, which shows the logic, the knowledge trail, evidence etc. As an asker, I don't want to be spoonfed answers, I want to be shown exactly how they came to the answer they are giving me so that I can learn from it.....
.....Perhaps this is why this translator is so successful on KudoZ. (In addition to the fact that he/she is probably just "right"). The asker is directed to give points to the most helpful answer. If someone is providing a really detailed and well researched answer with references etc, which also happens to be the right answer, then they deserve the points. And you shouldn't begrudge him/her for this. That's the system.
As for the consequences, even after looking at the English-Russian questions/answers, I can't bring myself to agree that the см. ниже type answers are more eye-catching or that they automatically "grab the agrees".
For example, I'm looking at one question right now where the aforementioned translator has given an answer with a "см" tag and someone else has proposed another answer. The "bite-size nugget" answer is the one with FOUR agrees, the "see below" answer has none. This throws a spanner is the works when it comes to your belief that a "see below" automatically gains prominence (and agrees).
If you feel you are being "cheated" because others flout an unworkable rule, then you need to compete even harder (KudoZ is meant to be competitive).
Essentially, you can't let these things anger you so much, there's plenty of things which will annoy you (on here and in general), but you just have to let it pass and chill out.
If you can provide answers which rival these other translators then you will get the points, if they get the points, then that's that...
.... I highly doubt it's due to a tiny tagged abbreviation.
Colloquially, if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen. (and don't blame the chefs). ▲ Collapse
| | | | Ty Kendall
Մեծ Բրիտանիա
Local time: 02:13
եբրայերենից անգլերեն
Sorry if I seem harsh, I just know from experience that its pointless wasting energy stressing over these types of things and especially when there is a more than valid counterargument for the use of "see below".
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Katerina O.
Ռուսաստանի Դաշնություն
անգլերենից ռուսերեն
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TOPIC STARTER | Turning the term search system into a mess | Dec 27, 2011 |
I honestly wasn't aware of such rule until after I started the topic a couple of days ago. I just don't find such answers appropriate and I tried to express what concerns me about them.
So, all the questions and affirmations regarding my attitude towards the rule have no grounds and seem quite odd to me. I'd really appreciate if some of the posts were removed and psychoanalysis be exercised elsewhere.
And I didn't say a word about getting points for answers, I have enou... See more I honestly wasn't aware of such rule until after I started the topic a couple of days ago. I just don't find such answers appropriate and I tried to express what concerns me about them.
So, all the questions and affirmations regarding my attitude towards the rule have no grounds and seem quite odd to me. I'd really appreciate if some of the posts were removed and psychoanalysis be exercised elsewhere.
And I didn't say a word about getting points for answers, I have enough of those.
I'd like to thank those who showed their support and those who provided justified counterarguments.
I am still sure that even though these answers are sometimes very tempting, they may be avoided. But, if most think that they are so much impossible to avoid and so much necessary, should this rule be removed? I doubt that. Then the whole term search system would turn into a complete mess.
I would also invite other moderators and site staff members to comment on the fact that such answers are so popular. ▲ Collapse
| | | | jyuan_us
Միացյալ Նահանգներ
Local time: 21:13
Անդամ (2005)
անգլերենից չինարեն
+ ...
| Even if the term search system is not affected by "see below" | Dec 27, 2011 |
Katerina O. wrote:
I honestly wasn't aware of such rule until after I started the topic a couple of days ago. I just don't find such answers appropriate and I tried to express what concerns me about them.
So, all the questions and affirmations regarding my attitude towards the rule have no grounds and seem quite odd to me. I'd really appreciate if some of the posts were removed and psychoanalysis be exercised elsewhere.
And I didn't say a word about getting points for answers, I have enough of those.
I'd like to thank those who showed their support and those who provided justified counterarguments.
I am still sure that even though these answers are sometimes very tempting, they may be avoided. But, if most think that they are so much impossible to avoid and so much necessary, should this rule be removed? I doubt that. Then the whole term search system would turn into a complete mess.
I would also invite other moderators and site staff members to comment on the fact that such answers are so popular.
The term system still deserves to be improved. In my language pair, some askers have entered wrong amswers to the system, which they happened to think of as correct.
[Edited at 2011-12-27 11:20 GMT]
| | | | Ty Kendall
Մեծ Բրիտանիա
Local time: 02:13
եբրայերենից անգլերեն
| Bigger Problems | Dec 27, 2011 |
It all depends on how you see it I suppose.
I find KudoZ as a whole an invaluable resource. I find the term search less than useful to say the least.
It might just be my language pair, but when I enter a word (such as התקשרות) which I know has been raised countless times in countless contexts/combinations, for some reason, term search tells me:
"Your search produced no results."
Yet when I go to google and type in התקשרות and "Pr... See more It all depends on how you see it I suppose.
I find KudoZ as a whole an invaluable resource. I find the term search less than useful to say the least.
It might just be my language pair, but when I enter a word (such as התקשרות) which I know has been raised countless times in countless contexts/combinations, for some reason, term search tells me:
"Your search produced no results."
Yet when I go to google and type in התקשרות and "Proz" it brings up a shed load of entries.
It works just fine in the reverse direction (English-Hebrew) but when I try getting anything Hebrew-English it's about as productive as nailing jelly to the wall....which is rather unfortunate for me as this is the only direction I translate in.
Surely the primary purpose of KudoZ is to help translators not automatically build glossaries (this can be done far better manually with editing etc). To be fair, I wouldn't trust a glossary which I knew had been automatically/artificially compiled.
I also agree with Jyuan...the glossary system faces bigger problems than "see below" with people entering all kinds of nonsense and god knows what else.... ▲ Collapse
| | | | Katerina O.
Ռուսաստանի Դաշնություն
անգլերենից ռուսերեն
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | term search is really a game of luck in Russian too | Dec 27, 2011 |
just as a forum search. Though there are many useful resources and explanations if you are lucky enough))
[Edited at 2011-12-27 13:37 GMT]
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Natalie
Լեհաստան
Local time: 03:13
Անդամ (2002)
անգլերենից ռուսերեն
+ ...
ՄՈԴԵՐԱՏՈՐ SITE LOCALIZER
Answering and making glossary entries are two different things.
Russell Jones wrote:
Such answers should be hidden by Moderators.
Sorry, Russel, but absolutely no: this is NOT a valid reason for squashing answers.
Katerina, please note that:
1) Actually, no matter what is put into the answer line by the answerer: the main thing is to make a valid glossary entry. In case you occasionally see in the glossary something like "post-marketing studies -- > see below", you can either call a moderator or provide glossary changes yourself using the right-hand menu.
2) Sometimes it is extremely difficult to provide a short answer that could be placed into the answer line; complicated questions often need more explanations or suggestions which cannot be put directly in the answer line.
3) There is nothing "fair" or "unfair" about such answers; they are just answers, exactly like all other.
4) Please note that whatever stays in the answer line, it has absolutely no impact on your search unless this is a glossary entry (which should be corrected if it is wrong - see "1").
Natalia
| | | | Audra deFalco (X)
Միացյալ Նահանգներ
Local time: 21:13
իտալերենից անգլերեն
+ ...
In my observations on this site, I think a lot of people here can be pretty cutthroat when the object of terms here is really to help and be helped. Full stop.
I see nothing wrong with using "see below" sparingly as we all know that sometimes you just need to give context and there is no way around it.
What I find more offensive, personally, is when people post your exact answer but change it eveeeeer so slightly to make it look like their own! ... See more In my observations on this site, I think a lot of people here can be pretty cutthroat when the object of terms here is really to help and be helped. Full stop.
I see nothing wrong with using "see below" sparingly as we all know that sometimes you just need to give context and there is no way around it.
What I find more offensive, personally, is when people post your exact answer but change it eveeeeer so slightly to make it look like their own! ▲ Collapse
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