| Pages in topic: [1 2] > | Revision job just turned into retranslation. How can I best make the agency see my point? Thread poster: Audra deFalco (X)
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Audra deFalco (X)
United States
Local time: 10:48
Italian to English
+ ...
Hi everyone!
In all my years of working this has actually never happened before. I agreed to a revision of a document at a set rate which I found to be on the lower side of fair but still acceptable (actually, I completely misunderstood their rates and thought it was for this first part of a revision but it turns out it was for the entire book, but I digress. That was my oversight and it's also never happened before, but I'm a woman of my word and if I agree to do work, I'll do it.... See more Hi everyone!
In all my years of working this has actually never happened before. I agreed to a revision of a document at a set rate which I found to be on the lower side of fair but still acceptable (actually, I completely misunderstood their rates and thought it was for this first part of a revision but it turns out it was for the entire book, but I digress. That was my oversight and it's also never happened before, but I'm a woman of my word and if I agree to do work, I'll do it.) It turns out as the document went on, it got progressively worse (I assume the Table of Contents was less difficult to translate than the actual body of the text, as it were).
In any case, there are numerous errors. In a 5,200 word document that I have in front of me there are no less than 15 mistranslated words and numerous (and I mean numerous) omissions, punctuation errors and grammatical errors. My track changes looks like a big blob of red. I cannot believe the translator actually passed this off as work. :-/
I've even prepared a tiny little table for the agency with three or four big errors and my retranslation just so they can see I know what I'm talking about; one of the errors was so bad it changed the entire meaning of the sentence from "400 million speakers" to "900 million speakers." For those of you who speak Spanish, here it is:
"and another 500 million plus can be included as those who have learned it as a foreign language" for "y se superan los 500 millones de personas añadiendo quienes lo han aprendido como lengua extranjera" (if other speakers having learned it as a foreign language are counted, it is spoken by 500 million plus people).
Would I be in the right to abandon this project as of now until they answer me? I have other clients who are waiting for my services at this very moment and I'd rather deal with their jobs which are cut and dry translation that I know and love. This is turning out to be a headache.
[Edited at 2014-10-03 16:59 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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If the agency hasn't already closed for the weekend, I wouldn't wait for an answer, I'd get on the phone and sort it out, so they in turn can contact their end-client and find a solution that satisfies everyone involved.
[Edited at 2014-10-03 17:14 GMT]
| | | | Sheila Wilson 
Spain
Local time: 15:48
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
| I feel for you, Audra | Oct 3, 2014 |
Audra de Falco wrote:
It turns out as the document went on, it got progressively worse.
I do more revision than translation nowadays and I find that so often. Either a non-native speaker of English finds it more and more difficult to write clearly, particularly when tired; or a translator sees that the deadline is becoming increasingly tight and stops looking anything up, and just bashes away at the keyboard (maybe taking advantage of the CAT tool's MT capabilities).
Would I be in the right to abandon this project as of now until they answer me?
So you haven't finished the job, and you have some time in hand? In that case, I certainly think it would be a good idea to shelve the project for a while while you renegotiate. You aren't in a very strong position, having accepted the rate, but it's certainly worth a try. Particularly if you're a valued supplier, and it's an agency that values its reputation.
I tell you what: after nearly 59 years of life experience, and 40 years of work, I don't think the "learning curve" ever disappears. It reinvents itself time after time, getting more and more imaginative!
| | | | Audra deFalco (X)
United States
Local time: 10:48
Italian to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
I could have sworn I just replied--I think my head is spinning from this job!
Anyway, I totally agree with you. I love this industry because we never stop learning! I've tried contacting the agency through numerous media (phone, Skype and e-mail) and I think I'm going to shelve it for the moment.
When I accepted this rate it was on the condition that this was a proofreading job; now that it is going beyond that scope, I feel the honorable thing for them to do would be t... See more I could have sworn I just replied--I think my head is spinning from this job!
Anyway, I totally agree with you. I love this industry because we never stop learning! I've tried contacting the agency through numerous media (phone, Skype and e-mail) and I think I'm going to shelve it for the moment.
When I accepted this rate it was on the condition that this was a proofreading job; now that it is going beyond that scope, I feel the honorable thing for them to do would be to honor my translation rate. I'll update you!
[Edited at 2014-10-03 17:37 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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| Stop working on it and tell them why you won't do it | Oct 3, 2014 |
Audra de Falco wrote:
Hi everyone!
In all my years of working this has actually never happened before. I agreed to a revision of a document at a set rate which I found to be on the lower side of fair but still acceptable (actually, I completely misunderstood their rates and thought it was for this first part of a revision but it turns out it was for the entire book, but I digress.
Hi Audra,
The problem I see is that you committed yourself to doing something before you did a thorough analysis of the project and before you quoted a price. But there are circumstances here that - based on your good-faith assumptions - should free you from that commitment.
You believed in good faith that indeed this is an acceptable revision job. I would write them immediately and try to contact them by phone if necessary that you in good faith accepted the project but that during the course of your work on this, it has become apparent that there is much more work involved than can be expected due to a translation of very poor quality. Although the client stated, for whatever reasons (and the low rate makes me very suspicious of their real reasons) that this would be a revision job, it clearly is not.
I would also explain that you first thought the price related to a particular part of the job, not all of it. You made a mistake which is partly due to your professional idea of what the rate should have been for just the first part of the project, and the rate doesn't shed a good light on this client. The word fly-by-night comes to mind.
I would state in no uncertain terms that this project turned out to be anything but a revision project, that the terms and deadline will have to be renegotiated (or simply state these terms and let them accept them or not) or, and that would be my recommendation, tell them that you cannot take this project on because you don't have the time (really though because I wouldn't trust that client to pay you what you want and when you want it).
For the future, I recommend thorough analyses of projects before you commit to anything. If the client can't wait for your thorough analysis, don't even bother.
HTH
PS: I would follow Sheila's advice and try to get paid for what you did for them incl. the examples that show how inadequate the translation is. Appeal to good faith efforts. At least you can try.
[Edited at 2014-10-03 17:58 GMT]
| | | | Audra deFalco (X)
United States
Local time: 10:48
Italian to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Bernhard, I TOTALLY agree with and cosign all that you say. The revision is taking place in pieces, and the first piece was actually not that bad. I have a feeling it might have been translated by more than one person, which is why I assumed the entire job would be manageable.
You are right on every other assumption. I've tried contacting them by Skype, phone and e-mail and it's now out of my hands.
| | | | Yvonne Gallagher
Ireland
Local time: 15:48
Member (2010)
French to English
+ ...
Hi Audra,
I had something similar happen in the last few days.
A regular client (agency) asked me to proof 12,000 words at my usual proofing rate. I agreed and started work that night. The "translation" was absolutely dreadful.
I don't always use track changes as I think it can sometimes make a good translation look dreadful when these changes are only preferential but after half an hour of this rubbish I started to track. So many mistranslations and so ... See more Hi Audra,
I had something similar happen in the last few days.
A regular client (agency) asked me to proof 12,000 words at my usual proofing rate. I agreed and started work that night. The "translation" was absolutely dreadful.
I don't always use track changes as I think it can sometimes make a good translation look dreadful when these changes are only preferential but after half an hour of this rubbish I started to track. So many mistranslations and so many obvious guesses at meaning without bothering to look up anything. a) it looked like a non-native had used a CAT tool and then ran out of time or just couldn't be bothered or just didn't realise they were making these mistakes.
I sent a few of these files to the agency around 11pm and told them I couldn't do any more of this at my proofing rate as it was taking so long, almost as long as a translation. I also suggested they fire the so- called "translator" before they produced another 10,000 words of this rubbish for the second part...
The PM (French) responded at 7 am to tell me he absolutely agreed about the awfulness of the "translation" and wanted me to continue so we renegotiated a deal that's fair...and I also needed an extension of deadline as it was going to take so much longer. (Delivered today after a few late-night sessions as other work had to be done too)
It is unbelievable that there are people out there calling themselves "translators" who can produce such S**t! It also seems to be a given these days that so many call themselves "native English" when they are anything but...
So stop work and renegotiate...After all it is taking time you thought you'd have available for other jobs (so take them!). Agency should have got back in touch with you and you've done your best to ring the alarm ▲ Collapse
| | | | Yvonne Gallagher
Ireland
Local time: 15:48
Member (2010)
French to English
+ ...
| agree with Bernhard | Oct 3, 2014 |
Yes, Bernhard is making the point well...
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Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 16:48
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
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| On using tracked changes | Oct 3, 2014 |
Audra de Falco wrote:
My track changes looks like a big blob of red.
Unless the client specified that I use tracked changes, I only use tracked changes if the number of changes are few and the recipient might like to accept/reject the changes on a case by case basis. But when a document gets to the point of rewriting, using tracked changes has no value whatsoever, and then I simply don't use tracked changes. Red soup also makes mistakes more likely.
| | | | Audra deFalco (X)
United States
Local time: 10:48
Italian to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | Track changes | Oct 3, 2014 |
Hi, Samuel.
I agree completely. I don't use track changes myself but this client specifically requested it. And so they'll receive a biiiiiig batch of red soup (borscht?).
| | | | VERLOW WOGLO JR
Brazil
Local time: 11:48
Member (2014)
Portuguese to English
+ ...
| I would halt until I get a reply. | Oct 3, 2014 |
Honest agencies will take your word for it - that the job required editing. And they will pay you accordingly, deducting from the original translator's pay, or charging from the client.
This is never a problem if the agency or client have people who understand the target language well enough to confirm its quality.
The problem is when we deal with people who have no idea of the language and think it is all the same, or who do know the job is badly written or translated ... See more Honest agencies will take your word for it - that the job required editing. And they will pay you accordingly, deducting from the original translator's pay, or charging from the client.
This is never a problem if the agency or client have people who understand the target language well enough to confirm its quality.
The problem is when we deal with people who have no idea of the language and think it is all the same, or who do know the job is badly written or translated and wait to see your reaction.
It does not matter if you agreed to proofread and went on to discover it needed more work. You should halt the work until you get a reply.
If the client does not trust your word then he/she is not a good client. After all, you are alerting to the bad quality of the work and looking out for your client's image. And you should be paid accordingly for your work.
I would suggest that in the future you pre-agree with client on the fees - should it be a retranslation, editing or just proofreading really - to be decided at your discretion. Otherwise, you will halt the job, or return it.
Cheers.
[Editada em 2014-10-03 20:03 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Robert Forstag
United States
Local time: 10:48
Spanish to English
+ ...
| Cut your losses and move on! | Oct 4, 2014 |
Bernhard makes the key point here: You committed to particular work before you fully appreciated the extent of the work involved.
You need to realize that a lot of proofreading jobs are in fact retranslation jobs in disguise. The reasons that such work gets offered in the first place is because the original translator did such a shitty job. And the "retranslator" (i.e., you) ends up getting massively screwed because there is typically no budget to allow for such work, so what you ... See more Bernhard makes the key point here: You committed to particular work before you fully appreciated the extent of the work involved.
You need to realize that a lot of proofreading jobs are in fact retranslation jobs in disguise. The reasons that such work gets offered in the first place is because the original translator did such a shitty job. And the "retranslator" (i.e., you) ends up getting massively screwed because there is typically no budget to allow for such work, so what you are offered compensates you for only a fraction of your time and effort.
There is, of course, almost certainly willful misrepresentation here by the party that offered you this work.
If you have to, simply give them what you've done without compensation. Is it really worth hours of your time and energy (let alone dragging someone to court!) for a couple hundred dollars? Cut your losses, chalk it up to experience, never make that mistake again, and move on.
I've been there. I know.
Good luck.
[Edited at 2014-10-04 12:34 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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Audra deFalco (X)
United States
Local time: 10:48
Italian to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
So everyone, here's an update.
The agency said that their in-house translator had a look at it and said, "It's really not all that bad!" despite me retranslating over 30 sentences in the 5,000 words I did (in all actuality, I stopped around 3,000 words) and despite some translations being so bad they change the entire meaning of the text (this is a translation sponsored by the Spanish government and they're going to accept a mistranslation that means the result is "900 million" rath... See more So everyone, here's an update.
The agency said that their in-house translator had a look at it and said, "It's really not all that bad!" despite me retranslating over 30 sentences in the 5,000 words I did (in all actuality, I stopped around 3,000 words) and despite some translations being so bad they change the entire meaning of the text (this is a translation sponsored by the Spanish government and they're going to accept a mistranslation that means the result is "900 million" rather than "400 million"??) It's unacceptable.
They said they cannot renegotiate my rate, and so I countered with the definition of proofreading in Spanish (see below) in biiiiiig highlighted lettering and told them that I don't work with dishonest agencies. Now they're backtracking and scrambling to get my on Skype but I want nothing to do with them.
PPROFREADING:
"Proofreading" es la corrección final de un texto antes de su publicación, normalmente en el formato en el que se va a publicar (con imágenes, otro texto, etc.). No consiste en la comprobación de que la traducción sea correcta, lo que se presupone, sino en la corrección de problemas relacionados con la apariencia del texto: sangrías, espacio entre líneas, visibilidad... También se suele pedir la corrección de errores ortográficos que se hayan podido escapar en la revisión.
Anyone who wants to know the name of this company, please feel free to PM me. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Michele Fauble
United States
Local time: 07:48
Member (2006)
Norwegian to English
+ ...
| Proofreading or revision? | Oct 6, 2014 |
Audra de Falco wrote:
I agreed to a revision of a document at a set rate which I found to be on the lower side of fair but still acceptable ...
Audra de Falco wrote:
When I accepted this rate it was on the condition that this was a proofreading job;
Audra de Falco wrote:
They said they cannot renegotiate my rate, and so I countered with the definition of proofreading in Spanish ...
[Edited at 2014-10-06 15:59 GMT]
| | | | Audra deFalco (X)
United States
Local time: 10:48
Italian to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | You've misunderstood | Oct 6, 2014 |
You've misunderstood. I agreed to a light revision of a text which I had no reason to believe was not translated well (they used the word proofreading, I used the word revision as I know from experience that even the best translations might require some tweaking outside of the normal punctuation and typographical error correction). I had signed an NDA and did not get to review the text beforehand, but was told that in no uncertain terms it did not need to be retranslated.
The first ... See more You've misunderstood. I agreed to a light revision of a text which I had no reason to believe was not translated well (they used the word proofreading, I used the word revision as I know from experience that even the best translations might require some tweaking outside of the normal punctuation and typographical error correction). I had signed an NDA and did not get to review the text beforehand, but was told that in no uncertain terms it did not need to be retranslated.
The first part of the document--the Table of Contents--was translated well, so I kept going. The first chapter after that was probably done by a different person because I had to retranslate large chunks of it. Some of the errors were in fact very serious.
I have no issue with agreeing to a rate and seeing a project through. I do take issue with the scope of work changing in the middle of the project as well as agencies who try to pass of retranslation work as revision. I agreed to revise a text that was translated well, and what I actually ended up having to do was retranslate almost the entire thing. Why should I not renogotiate rates when the agency was dishonest and what I accepted in good faith was actually not what they were offering?
[Edited at 2014-10-06 16:06 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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