| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5] > | Translator outsourced job to a colleague; what to do? Thread poster: Rifraf
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| Be firm about it | Sep 8, 2010 |
Rifraf wrote:
My problem:
She translates into an Eastern European language, which we can't "really" assess in-house. We pay her a very good price - for all I know she has outsourced the job for a couple of cents and now earns her money the easy way, cause all she has to do is read through the translation of her colleague.
If we receive a mediocre translation, there's almost no way for us to tell. But I do know that we never had complaints about "her translations".
I told her that she will be ultimately responsible for the translation, but I know that we as an agency are, so that doesn't help to get rid off the nasty feeling I'm left with.
Does anyone have advice on how to go about this?
In my opinion, you should be firm about this and tell the translator that it was unappropriate to outsource your jobs to third people without telling you, and without an adequate discussion about it, control by your agency of the third people's CVs and experience, and proper non-disclosure agreements signed with the third people (i.e. basically extending the same controls and requirements to the third people).
First I would stop all cooperation with this person until this is properly discussed. You must insist that it is her who does the translations, and that she must guarantee that with a signed letter mailed to you, or else you will not be able to outsource any other work to her, since you would then have no control of what kind of people are taking care of the translation. It is not a matter of quality, but of confidence in who is really taking care of the translations.
This translator must clearly see your point of view: you feel like you have been cheated all this time.
[Edited at 2010-09-08 10:00 GMT]
| | | | Lingua 5B 
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Local time: 16:06
Member (2009)
English to Croatian
+ ...
| OK, that's justifiable. | Sep 8, 2010 |
Nicole Schnell wrote:
I recall outsourcing jobs paying up to three times the rate out of pocket to the colleague because I was coming down with a cold and couldn't work properly, just to keep the client happy. Everyone happy, except me, who paid for it. But at least I did not breach any contract in terms of non-delivery.
If you went sick, that's really excusable. But the person in this story simply said " she outsources work when she doesn't have enough time to complete it" which is a little bizarre. It means she's taking on new projects while already having booked her time for a project prior to that. How professional is that?
| | | | Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 16:06
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
| Does client want a translator or a translation? | Sep 8, 2010 |
Tomás Cano Binder, CT wrote: Samuel Murray wrote:
I have met several colleagues who think nothing of outsourcing to fellow-translators, and think that there is nothing wrong with it. Then I am sorry but they are cheating the customer and they should not be in business. When an agency choose a translator, it is with the goal of working with that translator and no third people.
That is an interesting approach to the translation world, but there is nothing universal about that assumption, Tomás. A client uses a translation service provider to get a translation, not a translator.
If you phone a plumber to fix your pipes, what do you really want... a relationship with the plumber, or fixed pipes? The same goes for translation. If a client wants a translation, he makes use of a translation service provider, who may be one person or who may be a group of persons. From the client's perspective, it is the end-result that matters.
That said, I accept and acknowledge that some translation clients prefer to use freelancers who do not outsource their work, but unless they specifically state that that is their expectation, the freelancer is not obligated to assume that the reason the client uses a freelancer is primarily because of their singularity.
| | | | Lingua 5B
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Local time: 16:06
Member (2009)
English to Croatian
+ ...
| Samuel, by this logic... | Sep 8, 2010 |
I could create a fake CV stating my native language is Japanese, and sell my services, then outsource the work to a good Japanese translator, and that would be virtually OK, as long as the end-result is satisfactory?
Because that's basically what you are saying.
[Edited at 2010-09-08 10:16 GMT]
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| Intentionally twisting the matter | Sep 8, 2010 |
Samuel Murray wrote: Tomás Cano Binder, CT wrote: Samuel Murray wrote:
I have met several colleagues who think nothing of outsourcing to fellow-translators, and think that there is nothing wrong with it. Then I am sorry but they are cheating the customer and they should not be in business. When an agency choose a translator, it is with the goal of working with that translator and no third people. That is an interesting approach to the translation world, but there is nothing universal about that assumption, Tomás. A client uses a translation service provider to get a translation, not a translator. If you phone a plumber to fix your pipes, what do you really want... a relationship with the plumber, or fixed pipes? The same goes for translation. If a client wants a translation, he makes use of a translation service provider, who may be one person or who may be a group of persons. From the client's perspective, it is the end-result that matters.
I agree. It is the end result that matters. That's why customers choose people based on their qualifications and experience, and opinions from other people. The question here is that you want to have your pipes fixed, hire (and pay) a respectable plumber... and then the plumber goes away on your back and lets an unknown person enter your home and fiddle with your pipes, with unexpected results in the long run. Because I want my pipes fixed, and fixed correctly and for a long time, I want to see that the job is done by the person I carefully chose.
Same with translations: serious agencies spend a long time picking the best translators they can find and afford, and they want those translators, and not unknown people, to take care of the job.
| | | | | Contractual provision | Sep 8, 2010 |
In my CV, I note about a team of translation process providers [e.g. for 1nd, 2rd proofreading, QA]. To restrict to one-man translator, I agree in advance and obey to it through out the assignment.
Soonthon Lupkitaro
| | | | Nicole Schnell
United States
Local time: 07:06
English to German
+ ...
In memoriam | I agree with Samuel | Sep 8, 2010 |
Samuel Murray wrote:
A client uses a translation service provider to get a translation, not a translator.
If you phone a plumber to fix your pipes, what do you really want... a relationship with the plumber, or fixed pipes? The same goes for translation. If a client wants a translation, he makes use of a translation service provider, who may be one person or who may be a group of persons. From the client's perspective, it is the end-result that matters.
That said, I accept and acknowledge that some translation clients prefer to use freelancers who do not outsource their work, but unless they specifically state that that is their expectation, the freelancer is not obligated to assume that the reason the client uses a freelancer is primarily because of their singularity.
We sell products, namely top-quality work, not ourselves as a person. Sorry for this graphic example, but: "I want my translation done by the brunette with the long legs" just doesn't work in this industry.
| | | | David Wright
Austria
Local time: 16:06
German to English
+ ...
[/quote]If you went sick, that's really excusable. But the person in this story simply said " she outsources work when she doesn't have enough time to complete it" which is a little bizarre. It means she's taking on new projects while already having booked her time for a project prior to that. How professional is that? [/quote]
Do you really never find yourself with too much work to do with deadlines that you can't meet? And not because you've planned it that way but because "these ... See more [/quote]If you went sick, that's really excusable. But the person in this story simply said " she outsources work when she doesn't have enough time to complete it" which is a little bizarre. It means she's taking on new projects while already having booked her time for a project prior to that. How professional is that? [/quote]
Do you really never find yourself with too much work to do with deadlines that you can't meet? And not because you've planned it that way but because "these things happen" (Regular customer wants job A by deadline, regular B, whom you cannot refuse cos you know how he relies on you wants a jpb done urgently, a job you'd accepted two weeks ago but either forgot about or assumed it wasn't coming after all, turns up --- etc) These things happen to me all the time and if I felt that I couldn't cope I'd pass on -- to someone I can rely on utterly and whose work I will check through afterwards (so I could even argue that the final version is "mine".) ▲ Collapse
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Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 16:06
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
| Sweeping statements which do not fly | Sep 8, 2010 |
Lingua 5B wrote:
Unless you are registered and introduced to a client as a business/ or a team manager and the client is fully aware you are not going to do it personally. It is acceptably only under these terms.
I accept that what you (Lingua 5B) say is your personal opinion and something that you feel about strongly, but it is not a universal principle. It is partly based on an assumption about how businesses work in various countries. Not all countries require a business to be registered to operate as a bona fide business, and in some countries freelancers can freely choose to trade under his own name or under a business name.
If you outsource a job to "Adams and Sons" and the job ends up being done by one of Mr Adams' employees instead of himself or one of his sons, would you have a problem with that?
Tomás Cano Binder, CT wrote:
It is against any wording of professional rules to say yes to a job you are not going to do personally.
As for Tomás' post about the "wording of any professional rules", well that is a sweeping statement that cannot be substantiated. Translation work does not have professional status in all countries, and even in the countries where translators generally belong to a professional association, those associations don't all have something to say about outsourcing.
The South African Translators' Institute's code of ethics does not mention outsourcing at all. Neither does the American Translators Association's code of ethics for freelance translators. On the other hand, the Institute of Translation and Interpreting (from the UK) does prohibit outsourcing without the client's consent. Which "any professional rules" did you have in mind, Tomás?
[Edited at 2010-09-08 10:29 GMT]
| | | | Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 16:06
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
| Fake implies deliberate dishonesty | Sep 8, 2010 |
Lingua 5B wrote:
I could create a fake CV stating my native language is Japanese, and sell my services, then outsource the work to a good Japanese translator, and that would be virtually OK, as long as the end-result is satisfactory? ... Because that's basically what you are saying.
No, if you create a fake CV then you are dishonest and you deliberately deceive the client. The issue here is a translator who is capable of doing the job herself but who outsources to another translator without telling the client beforehand. There is no deliberate dishonesty or wilful attempts to deceive in the case under discussion.
| | | | Nicole Schnell
United States
Local time: 07:06
English to German
+ ...
In memoriam | And so does the translator who is outsourcing | Sep 8, 2010 |
Tomás Cano Binder, CT wrote:
Same with translations: serious agencies spend a long time picking the best translators they can find and afford, and they want those translators, and not unknown people, to take care of the job.
Which translators can afford or are willing to put their established customer relationships at risk? If he/she does without thinking and picks random people, then natural selection will take its course anyway. Other than that: There is no reason to feel cheated, betrayed or anything, simply because the boss of any company does not serve your needs in person.
| | | | | How about this | Sep 8, 2010 |
Nicole Schnell wrote:
We sell products, namely top-quality work, not ourselves as a person. Sorry for this graphic example, but: "I want my translation done by the brunette with the long legs" just doesn't work in this industry.
I agree. But how would it be if we changed the sentence a little: "I want my translation done by the certified translator with 10 years of experience in my field". Does that work in our industry?
When a customer selects a "certified translator with 10 years of experience in my field", that is what they want, and it is terrible that they discovered that this translator is just a façade and the person outsources work to unidentified people, thus circumventing the customer's controls and desire for tranquility.
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| This was not a company, but a translator | Sep 8, 2010 |
Nicole Schnell wrote: Tomás Cano Binder, CT wrote:
Same with translations: serious agencies spend a long time picking the best translators they can find and afford, and they want those translators, and not unknown people, to take care of the job. Which translators can afford or are willing to put their established customer relationships at risk? If he/she does without thinking and picks random people, then natural selection will take its course anyway. Other than that: There is no reason to feel cheated, betrayed or anything, simply because the boss of any company does not serve your needs in person.
I think the original poster believed he was hiring a person, not a team or company. This does not apply to the situation at hand, in my opinion.
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Samuel Murray wrote: Tomás Cano Binder, CT wrote:
It is against any wording of professional rules to say yes to a job you are not going to do personally. The South African Translators' Institute's code of ethics does not mention outsourcing at all. Neither does the American Translators Association's code of ethics for freelance translators. On the other hand, the Institute of Translation and Interpreting (from the UK) does prohibit outsourcing without the client's consent. Which "any professional rules" did you have in mind, Tomás?
Sorry! I got carried away about this, and said that without properly checking the code of ethics of a number of associations. Sorry guys!
| | | | Nicole Schnell
United States
Local time: 07:06
English to German
+ ...
In memoriam | Any self-employed translator is a company | Sep 8, 2010 |
Tomás Cano Binder, CT wrote:
I think the original poster believed he was hiring a person, not a team or company. This does not apply to the situation at hand, in my opinion.
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