| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4] > | Bad bad postulants Thread poster: Lany Chabot-Laroche
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| A few remarks on this | Mar 17, 2011 |
Miguel Carmona wrote:
I have reached the conclusion that numerous outsourcers state Trados as a requirement just to see how much abuse the translator can take.
I beg to differ on this one: in most cases, the real problem behind this is the lack of knowledge or – if you want – ignorance by project managers who often don't know that a "Trados-only" job is in fact not Trados-only because it can be perfectly handled with a different tool. And I'm saying this as a happy Trados user since 2003 or so. (Oh, yes, I do use other CATs as well.)
Have you seen the incredibly high, continuously increasing number of complaints against Trados? And that is just in the ProZ forums.
I beg to differ again. A good 80% of these "complaints" are how-to questions. Taking basic formal training or consulting the Help from time to time would have resolved most of these "complaints".
Once the outsourcer sees that the translator is easily abusable (by virtue of being a Trados user and, therefore, willing to bear a great deal of frustration on a daily basis), the outsourcer can confidently proceed to hire the translator.
I apologize, but I can't see how being a Trados user could make me easily abusable. I use it for my direct clients just as well and they often don't know CAT tools even exist. Do you think I'm abusing myself?
[Upraveno: 2011-03-17 20:54 GMT]
| | | | | Just letting off steam out of frustration | Mar 18, 2011 |
Hi Stanislav,
Thank you for your detailed comments.
I am sorry, my sarcastic comments were not intended to be taken literally.
It is just that I am really frustrated with Trados, and I simply decided to let off steam by making the types of negative comments you just responded to.
My frustration is that Trados is not, by any stretch of the imagination, a huge software suite like Microsoft Office or Adobe Suite (how many thousands of line... See more Hi Stanislav,
Thank you for your detailed comments.
I am sorry, my sarcastic comments were not intended to be taken literally.
It is just that I am really frustrated with Trados, and I simply decided to let off steam by making the types of negative comments you just responded to.
My frustration is that Trados is not, by any stretch of the imagination, a huge software suite like Microsoft Office or Adobe Suite (how many thousands of lines of code there must be in either of those two suites for every line of code in Trados?), nevertheless, even the simple process of installing Trados is quite a bit more complicated than installing those two other software suites.
To top things off, all the necessary information to install Trados does not seem to be in just one place, and once you manage to get it installed, pray real hard that the thing will work. By reading comments from users, this process, which shoud be rather simple, is simply a nightmare, at least to a lot of users.
Where do you start? Uninstalling what? Returning what? Installing What? In what order? And then the C++ thing.
Shouldn't SDL hire a decent software designer to address all those annoying issues? Trados seems to be a software permanently in beta stage: unfinished.
A year ago I paid for my Trados Studio 2009 upgrade, which I have not installed yet, simply because like many other freelancers, I am too busy to start looking for all the information so I do not get stuck in the middle of the installation process. Other users have expressed this concern in other threads.
I am simply frustrated. ▲ Collapse
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Well, Miguel, I totally agree here. Trados is generally a mess to work with. So many things can go wrong, and without complete expertise, you can screw things up big time very easily (oops, I erased coded text). I much prefer SDLX (I can't say I used other tools) and why all agencies insist on using Trados instead of other tools is beyond me.
I really thought all previous comments were directed at all CAT tools, and not only Trados. But, client is always right, and when he asks for... See more Well, Miguel, I totally agree here. Trados is generally a mess to work with. So many things can go wrong, and without complete expertise, you can screw things up big time very easily (oops, I erased coded text). I much prefer SDLX (I can't say I used other tools) and why all agencies insist on using Trados instead of other tools is beyond me.
I really thought all previous comments were directed at all CAT tools, and not only Trados. But, client is always right, and when he asks for a particular tool, if you don't have it, too bad, different strokes, and that doesn't make anyone less of a translator. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Nicole Schnell 
United States
Local time: 10:40
English to German
+ ...
In memoriam | Why? Not necessarily. | Mar 18, 2011 |
Lany Chabot-Laroche wrote:
But, client is always right, and when he asks for a particular tool, if you don't have it, too bad
A new client of mine insisted on Across. I don't have or use Across. I work with four different kinds of CAT tools (while I have never spent a cent on any of them, if a client insists on their preferred software, they will send me a free copy). However, we were not compatible. How the discussion ended? I won, and the PM said that all they want is a fine translation, nothing else. That's how we have been working together ever since. I send my work as Word files, BTW. 
How you run your company and which tools you use, is your business. The client is buying a finished product, he has no saying whatsoever how you achieve getting from point A to point B.
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Nicole Schnell wrote:
The client is buying a finished product, he has no saying whatsoever how you achieve getting from point A to point B.
Yes, but that finished product might include updating the client's server-based TM or using proprietary termbases and proprietary translatable files, which would be pretty challenging to do without a compatible tool.
We've been over this a million times, I'm sure nobody needs a refresher course.
| | | | Nicole Schnell
United States
Local time: 10:40
English to German
+ ...
In memoriam
FarkasAndras wrote:
Yes, but that finished product might include updating the client's server-based TM or using proprietary termbases and proprietary translatable files, which would be pretty challenging to do without a compatible tool.
We've been over this a million times, I'm sure nobody needs a refresher course.
If updating the termbase has priority over working with the right translator, the outsourcer is doing something wrong.
| | | | IPtranslate (X)
Brazil
English to Dutch
+ ...
| Thank you, Miguel..... | Mar 18, 2011 |
Miguel Carmona wrote:
Hi Stanislav,
Thank you for your detailed comments.
I am sorry, my sarcastic comments were not intended to be taken literally.
It is just that I am really frustrated with Trados, and I simply decided to let off steam by making the types of negative comments you just responded to.
My frustration is that Trados is not, by any stretch of the imagination, a huge software suite like Microsoft Office or Adobe Suite (how many thousands of lines of code there must be in either of those two suites for every line of code in Trados?), nevertheless, even the simple process of installing Trados is quite a bit more complicated than installing those two other software suites.
To top things off, all the necessary information to install Trados does not seem to be in just one place, and once you manage to get it installed, pray real hard that the thing will work. By reading comments from users, this process, which shoud be rather simple, is simply a nightmare, at least to a lot of users.
Where do you start? Uninstalling what? Returning what? Installing What? In what order? And then the C++ thing.
Shouldn't SDL hire a decent software designer to address all those annoying issues? Trados seems to be a software permanently in beta stage: unfinished.
A year ago I paid for my Trados Studio 2009 upgrade, which I have not installed yet, simply because like many other freelancers, I am too busy to start looking for all the information so I do not get stuck in the middle of the installation process. Other users have expressed this concern in other threads.
I am simply frustrated.
for putting it so eloquently.
I am fed up with reproaches that it is I who should try harder to get Trados to work properly; I am not the one who writes the soft. I am the engineer and linguist who needs the soft (for which he has paid a lot of money) to carry out his daily duties. To try an analogy: next time you need surgery, don't forget to brush up your anatomy and biology, and be prepared to help out during the operation if you want to come out of the operating theater alive!
| | | | | Easy way out | Mar 18, 2011 |
I believe we are hijacking this thread to another series of Trados-bashing posts, but I can't help responding to this:
IPtranslate wrote:
I am fed up with reproaches that it is I who should try harder to get Trados to work properly; I am not the one who writes the soft. I am the engineer and linguist who needs the soft (for which he has paid a lot of money) to carry out his daily duties.
The help is soooo easy: migrate to different software. The market is wide enough.
Miguel Carmona wrote:
My frustration is that Trados is not, by any stretch of the imagination, a huge software suite like Microsoft Office or Adobe Suite (how many thousands of lines of code there must be in either of those two suites for every line of code in Trados?), nevertheless, even the simple process of installing Trados is quite a bit more complicated than installing those two other software suites.
Miguel, are you sure that it is appropriate to measure software complexity by the number of source code lines? Database software is a little different from text editors. And if I was to draw a parallel between MS Office and Trados Studio, I can only say that while I experience at least 10 Word crashes a week, working mostly on complex documents, I only had about half a dozen crashes of Studio since September 2006.
As regards installation, I'm definitely not a computer freak, but I never had any problems. Install Workbench, install Studio, install MultiTerm. Under Win Vista and Win7, make sure that you have Admin rights. What's so complicated about that?
To top things off, all the necessary information to install Trados does not seem to be in just one place, and once you manage to get it installed, pray real hard that the thing will work. By reading comments from users, this process, which shoud be rather simple, is simply a nightmare, at least to a lot of users.
Why do the developers bother to write Release Notes when nobody reads them before installation or upgrade? I've used Trados Studio since its first release in June 2009 and I can confirm that this release was riddled with bugs. As one of the Beta testers, I can only blame myself for not testing properly. Since the release of SP1 in September 2009, I contacted the Support on one single issue. Otherwise no problems.
Where do you start? Uninstalling what? Returning what? Installing What? In what order? And then the C++ thing.
Easy help again: turn Auto-update on and you won't have to ask these questions.
A year ago I paid for my Trados Studio 2009 upgrade, which I have not installed yet, simply because like many other freelancers, I am too busy to start looking for all the information so I do not get stuck in the middle of the installation process.
(My emphasis.) And this is what strikes me most, Miguel: you are frustrated by and making judgements on software you don't even use, just based on complaints by other users. I find this at least... uhm... strange.
Other users have expressed this concern in other threads.
And did you read those complaints well? Just yesterday, I came across a post by a fellow Studio user who complained that MultiTerm SP4 installation failed because she left a TagEditor window open during the MT SP4 installation process. And the installer didn't warn her to close TagEditor before continuing! What flagrant negligence by the programmers! One could hardly imagine that! (I apologize for my sarcasm.)
My conclusion? Trados runs well for me, perhaps because I do care about OS/Java/Trados updates. And perhaps also because:
1. I don't mix work and entertainment; read I don't install games, movie editing apps etc. on my working machines
2. I use decent antivirus and firewall software
3. I don't install and uninstall programs or applications unnecessarily
4. I don't use registry "cleaners", system "optimizers" or other stuff that will mess up your OS more than anything else.
Now make a brief survey to see how many colleagues have broken one of these four points, which are BTW not my invention: they are nothing else than widely known best practices.
[Upraveno: 2011-03-18 16:43 GMT]
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Stanislav Pokorny wrote:
1. I don't mix work and entertainment; read I don't install games, movie editing apps etc. on my working machines
2. I use decent antivirus and firewall software
3. I don't install and uninstall programs or applications unnecessarily
I don't follow any of those rules and it still works fine with me Although I still do prefer other software.
Things are a big slow today, I'll check Trados 2009.
| | | | Jaroslaw Michalak
Poland
Local time: 19:40
Member (2004)
English to Polish
SITE LOCALIZER
Stanislav Pokorny wrote:
And did you read those complaints well? Just yesterday, I came across a post by a fellow Studio user who complained that MultiTerm SP4 installation failed because she left a TagEditor window open during the MT SP4 installation process. And the installer didn't warn her to close TagEditor before continuing! What flagrant negligence by the programmers! One could hardly imagine that! (I apologize for my sarcasm.)
My freeware program manager, when it updates, detects if the older copy runs, asks whether to close it and then happily continues. So does Firefox. And most other decent programs. And they didn't cost 100M to develop.
My conclusion? Trados runs well for me, perhaps because I do care about OS/Java/Trados updates. And perhaps also because:
1. I don't mix work and entertainment; read I don't install games, movie editing apps etc. on my working machines
2. I use decent antivirus and firewall software
3. I don't install and uninstall programs or applications unnecessarily
4. I don't use registry "cleaners", system "optimizers" or other stuff that will mess up your OS more than anything else.
Alternately:
1. Use well-written software.
| | | | | Craigslist is the last place I'd look for a translator... | Mar 18, 2011 |
but I found my wife and my house there, so it has its uses!
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Jabberwock wrote:
My conclusion? Trados runs well for me, perhaps because I do care about OS/Java/Trados updates. And perhaps also because:
1. I don't mix work and entertainment; read I don't install games, movie editing apps etc. on my working machines
2. I use decent antivirus and firewall software
3. I don't install and uninstall programs or applications unnecessarily
4. I don't use registry "cleaners", system "optimizers" or other stuff that will mess up your OS more than anything else.
Alternately: 1. Use well-written software.
Even better alternative, IMVHO: don't rely on any software and use your brains.
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| A Little update | Mar 31, 2011 |
I recently received a job outside my area of expertise, and without any CAT tool, and my regular colleague was unavailable, so I tried using one of the contacts I have made in my previous search on this site.
Unfortunately, the translation contained an unusual amount of typos and grammar errors (dumb mistakes, like grade school homonyms). I told the translator about them and asked that she sends me a revised invoice, this has been almost 1 week and I have no news from the translator... See more I recently received a job outside my area of expertise, and without any CAT tool, and my regular colleague was unavailable, so I tried using one of the contacts I have made in my previous search on this site.
Unfortunately, the translation contained an unusual amount of typos and grammar errors (dumb mistakes, like grade school homonyms). I told the translator about them and asked that she sends me a revised invoice, this has been almost 1 week and I have no news from the translator that so far was replying pretty fast.
I guess I was just unlucky, a certain amount of risk is inevitable when you are trying to find need contacts. I'm not giving up, but next time I might ask for a small sample, time permitting. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Nicole Schnell
United States
Local time: 10:40
English to German
+ ...
In memoriam | Not unlucky, but the wrong method | Mar 31, 2011 |
Lany Chabot-Laroche wrote:
Unfortunately, the translation contained an unusual amount of typos and grammar errors (dumb mistakes, like grade school homonyms). I told the translator about them and asked that she sends me a revised invoice, this has been almost 1 week and I have no news from the translator that so far was replying pretty fast.
I guess I was just unlucky, a certain amount of risk is inevitable when you are trying to find need contacts. I'm not giving up, but next time I might ask for a small sample, time permitting.
How come that you didn't ask for a revised translation first before asking for a revised invoice?
There are a lot of candidates out there who think that sending off a raw and unchecked version of their precious work is the way to go because they consider proofreaders their personal cleaning woman. Step on their toes. Have them fix their shoddy job first - if the second round doesn't show satisfactory results, then you can deduct payment, but not before.
BTW, in European countries it's the law. Vendors/suppliers must be given the chance to fix their job if the buyer is dissatisfied.
Edited for typo.
[Edited at 2011-03-31 15:26 GMT]
| | | | | Not aroudn here | Mar 31, 2011 |
Nicole Schnell wrote: Lany Chabot-Laroche wrote:
Unfortunately, the translation contained an unusual amount of typos and grammar errors (dumb mistakes, like grade school homonyms). I told the translator about them and asked that she sends me a revised invoice, this has been almost 1 week and I have no news from the translator that so far was replying pretty fast.
I guess I was just unlucky, a certain amount of risk is inevitable when you are trying to find need contacts. I'm not giving up, but next time I might ask for a small sample, time permitting. How come that you didn't ask for a revised translation first before asking for a revised invoice? There are a lot of candidates out there who think that sending off a raw and unchecked version of their precious work is the way to go because they consider proofreaders their personal cleaning woman. Step on their toes. Have them fix their shoddy job first - if the second round doesn't show satisfactory results, then you can deduct payment, but not before. BTW, in European countries it's the law. Vendors/suppliers must be given the chance to fix their job if the buyer is dissatisfied. Edited for typo. [Edited at 2011-03-31 15:26 GMT]
Well, here, we usually expect a clean text the first time around. And unfortunately, the deadline did not allow me to send it back right away. I'm not sure it it would have really helped as it seems the translator just didn't know certain rules, there was at least 10 occurrences of the equivalent of your/you're switches. We are talking over 15 glaring mistakes on a 1300 word text.
I understand what you say, but in reality, I don't have time to proof it, see it's not good enough, send it back, get the revised version and then proof it again.
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