| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4] > | What a cheek!!! Thread poster: Laurent Di Raimondo
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Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 17:24
Member (2008)
Italian to English
I get job offers like that all the time. I appreciate when they just tell me, straight off, that they are offering an extremely low rate. This saves me a lot of time and worry. I can delete their email immediately and carry on with my life.
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 17:24
Member (2008)
Italian to English
Your surname should've tipped me off, but then my surname kind of sounds Italian as well, so you never know!
"Scream" doesn't sound even slightly Italian.
| | | | | Save time, stay safe | Mar 4, 2023 |
I was once taught “professional” means not only efficient but also friendly. I am not sure you achieved any of the two.
Also, replying to such dubious an email is not the safest thing in the world.
Stay calm, stay safe, stay professional.
| | | | expressisverbis
Portugal
Local time: 17:24
Member (2015)
English to Portuguese
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| Laurent and Baran | Mar 4, 2023 |
Hi!
With all due respect, I believe that we should not generalize.
Translators who work for peanuts exist everywhere and I wonder if they are really professional translators... I've seen worse rates than that!
I remember once seeing on those freelance work sites, a lawyer who was offering translations into PT-PT for €0.01 per word!!!
I work with some French agencies and with two clients and so far I have never had any complaints. I'm quite happy with all them.
We ... See more Hi!
With all due respect, I believe that we should not generalize.
Translators who work for peanuts exist everywhere and I wonder if they are really professional translators... I've seen worse rates than that!
I remember once seeing on those freelance work sites, a lawyer who was offering translations into PT-PT for €0.01 per word!!!
I work with some French agencies and with two clients and so far I have never had any complaints. I'm quite happy with all them.
We tend to "blame" certain agencies that offer us crazy rates, but how about the "translator" who accepts them?
I have received emails with the most ridiculous rates and the "craziest" language pairs (none of them being mine), but I don't waste my time replying and sometimes I don't even read those emails to the end.
On the other hand, I completely agree that we should not let certain agencies impose their own rates, but it's all a matter of negotiating, and projecting a good image of us (personally and professionally). ▲ Collapse
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Laurent Di Raimondo 
France
Local time: 18:24
English to French
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TOPIC STARTER SITE LOCALIZER | Sorry for all that storm in a tea cup... | Mar 4, 2023 |
Dear colleagues,
Reading each of your opinions, although all equally relevant, I finally regret having posted this topic. And for sure I should have thought twice before opening such a discussion on what proved to be a storm in a tea cup.
But doing so, I was simply hoping for more support from my peers, although I still think it's high time to do a vast spring clean-up among all those so-called translation "professional" agencies.
One thing's for sure: I do... See more Dear colleagues,
Reading each of your opinions, although all equally relevant, I finally regret having posted this topic. And for sure I should have thought twice before opening such a discussion on what proved to be a storm in a tea cup.
But doing so, I was simply hoping for more support from my peers, although I still think it's high time to do a vast spring clean-up among all those so-called translation "professional" agencies.
One thing's for sure: I don't intend to embark on such a mammoth task on my own, as I have better things to do and still have a lot on my plate.
I just wanted to explain that we should never miss out on any opportunity to earn more respect and consideration and defend our dignity and bread-and-butter job as translators.
I was seemingly misunderstood and I am dreadfully sorry for that.
The great Mark Twain once wrote: "Who puts up with being treated like cattle can not complain about being slaughtered sooner or later".
Food for thought...
Best to all of you.
[Modifié le 2023-03-04 19:49 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Sadek_A
Local time: 20:24
English to Arabic
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Laurent Di Raimondo wrote:
I finally regret having posted this topic......I am dreadfully sorry for that.
Not good!
You apologizing turns the situation from a translator defending his legit right to dictate project's terms into a mere internet-commenter who couldn't stand the heat.
That's how abusive companies and clients win!
Who says the reprimands here weren't from company owners/partners/employees?
It doesn't matter how they replied to you, what matters is whether you were valid in your initial attitude towards the project.
So ... were you valid?
I think you were!
-----
There is clearly a vibe of fires burning inside, and among, many translators here recently in face of abuse by companies/clients, only to be "peed-on out" with a lame "it helps to turn the other cheek".
How about first addressing the abuses igniting those fires?
No?
| | | | Daryo
United Kingdom
Local time: 17:24
Serbian to English
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| What do you think of this? | Mar 8, 2023 |
Jean Dimitriadis wrote: Laurent, Examples such as this one abound, but with all due respect, I beg to differ on a number of points: 1. I would say a generalization such as this one isn't useful (except as a shortcut for silent filtering) and does not hold to any serious scrutiny. 2. You can still provide a counter-offer and not agree to their rate. Yes, it can be annoying to feel they try to dictate the price, but it is still a negotiation, nothing has been set in stone yet. An initial price-tag can get the ball rolling or cut down to the chase by helping quickly determine whether there's any realistic room for negotiation (as in, "oh look, it seems they can't afford my rates, let's move on" or "that rate means they are operating in a different market segment, let's move on", etc.). 3. I think you can still defend your integrity while remaining professional at all times. We're communication experts after all  4. Agreed, but with the footnote that while bad BlueBoard rates are a red flag, good ones aren't necessarily an accurate indicator. 5. I am all for educating the client if this helps build a mutually beneficial business relationship and is likely to be appreciated. Adopting a belligerent approach, virtually "spanking" the other party, and burning bridges does not qualify in my book and sounds like a waste of precious time. --- Your mileage may vary as it all comes down to a personal approach, but cultivating a stoic calmness can go a long way... Epictetus' Enchiridion to the rescue... "Remember that it is not he who gives abuse or blows, who affronts, but the view we take of these things as insulting. When, therefore, anyone provokes you, be assured that it is your own opinion which provokes you. Try, therefore, in the first place, not to be bewildered by appearances. For if you once gain time and respite, you will more easily command yourself." With regards! [Edited at 2023-03-04 06:36 GMT]
I stumbled somewhere on a quote, that says roughly:
"Politeness is wasted on people who only look how to take advantage of you"
Wouldn't that apply here?
| | | | Laurent Di Raimondo
France
Local time: 18:24
English to French
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TOPIC STARTER SITE LOCALIZER | Sometimes politeness is a waste of time, indeed. | Mar 9, 2023 |
Daryo wrote:
I stumbled somewhere on a quote, that says roughly:
"Politeness is wasted on people who only look how to take advantage of you"
Wouldn't that apply here?
It exactly would apply here, indeed: Why bother treating with kid gloves people who treat you like cattle?
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| We can disagree and still be on the same side | Mar 10, 2023 |
In case it wasn't obvious, the stoic quote that I've shared at the end of my reply wasn't a case for politely turning the other cheek or giving abusers the slip, but for being responsible of your own emotions/reactions and not projecting them onto others. That's one of my main takeaways from the Enchiridion, and one that has stayed with me, another one being that it helps to determine what depends on you and what does not, and to act in accordance.
The original post gave a concrete ... See more In case it wasn't obvious, the stoic quote that I've shared at the end of my reply wasn't a case for politely turning the other cheek or giving abusers the slip, but for being responsible of your own emotions/reactions and not projecting them onto others. That's one of my main takeaways from the Enchiridion, and one that has stayed with me, another one being that it helps to determine what depends on you and what does not, and to act in accordance.
The original post gave a concrete example of an exchange between an offer and a reply, and I voiced my specific quibbles/reflections on a point by point basis.
Bur there is indeed a larger point to be made here, one that I haven't touched upon and kept implicit in the respectful (not merely polite) tone of my reply.
My understanding of that point, is that there is a collective need for professional self-respect, integrity and "fighting" to keep the profession in good standing in both our communications and the quality of what we do. This is something I can stand behind, and I hope my contributions on ProZ over the years make it evident.
I understand that Laurent posted this as an example of and an invitation for "fighting for our profession".
So, while I think it misses the mark and reiterate my particular disagreements on both the form and the content (le fond et la forme) of the OP, I extend my solidarity to Laurent and all colleagues who are upholding these values and high standards for the benefit of all (and their own), in their own individual way.
[Edited at 2023-03-10 17:17 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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[Duplicate]
[Edited at 2023-03-10 00:37 GMT]
| | | | Jo Macdonald
Spain
Local time: 18:24
Italian to English
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| Chris's nick always reminds me of | Mar 10, 2023 |
I scream you scream we all scream for ice scream
Roberto Benigni, Tom Waits and John Lurie in jail in Down by Law
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_LMI0mPFMY
Tom in London wrote:
Your surname should've tipped me off, but then my surname kind of sounds Italian as well, so you never know!
"Scream" doesn't sound even slightly Italian.
| | | | Kay Denney
France
Local time: 18:24
French to English
One of my all-time favourite films.
Stranger Than Paradise, also with John Lurie, is even better. I must have seen it at least a dozen times. I once met a woman from Cleveland and told her she had to see it, she told me afterwards "yes that just about sums up Cleveland".
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Laurent Di Raimondo wrote:
Dear colleagues,
I can't resist to share with you one of those weird offers I've just received today coming from a French translation agency (maybe one of those lousy junk chained mails).
This email reads:
"Hello, [sic]
We have received a new project in the en-US_fr-FR language pair:
Service: Translation
WC: 4532,3 words
Rate: 0.06 EUR [sic]
Deadline: 07/03 11h CET
Field: Marketing/Photography
TAO: Trados
Would you be available to handle it?
Kind regards".
Reading this, I was about to dump it on my waste bin in first intention. But then, I came around to take time and give a short answer to this cheeky author.
And here is my answer:
"Hello, [same tone and level of courtesy]
Rule no.1: I no longer work for any French translation agency nor for any French LSP. They all have a bad reputation within the translation industry of being late serial payers and dishonest partners in business.
Rule no.2: I don’t let anyone decide for me on my price rates [that took the cake!]. Do you happen to impose your own price when having your car repaired?
I find your attitude quite shameful and disrespectful yet not so surprising coming from a French agency…
Best regards".
For my part, I draw several conclusions of this short and trivial story:
(1) Never work for a French translation agency
(2) Never let anyone dictate nor impose your own prices
(3) Never hesitate to bring down disrespectful LSPs a peg or two when it comes to defend your integrity as as professional translator
(4) Always check their Blue Board (here scored 3.7, what largely vindicated my position)
(5) Never miss any opportunity to "educate" such cheeky players often self-proclaimed "business partners"
Don't hesitate to share your views and same experiences to this respect.
Best to all of you.
[Modifié le 2023-03-03 20:44 GMT]
I sometimes get job offers in this tone from agencies/clients I have never worked with them and from countries which I have on my no-no list clearly stated on my Proz profile. I also get tempted to reply to them in a sarcastic manner just like you did, and when I cannot resist that temptation, I simply write back to them "Have you read my profile carefully?".
From my experience this works best, since they hardly reply. I know that there are some real ignorant people who do not read my profile carefully even though my no-no list on my profile is in bold and enlarged characters so that they stand out.
Why don't you clearly state that you don't work with French agencies, LSPs or clients on your profile like I do? I noticed you haven't mentioned this on your profile. This would at least curb some of those inquiries which you consider them obnoxious.
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Yasutomo Kanazawa wrote:
Why don't you clearly state that you don't work with French agencies, LSPs or clients on your profile like I do? I noticed you haven't mentioned this on your profile. This would at least curb some of those inquiries which you consider them obnoxious.
As though they'd actually read and take note?
Whenever I see profiles where people lay out loads of terms and conditions and say they don't work for peanuts, it just looks amateurish to me. I'd avoid them even if I were a high-end customer.
| | | | Lieven Malaise
Belgium
Local time: 18:24
Member (2020)
French to Dutch
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| French agencies | Mar 13, 2023 |
Laurent Di Raimondo wrote:
(1) Never work for a French translation agency
Your advice would have cost me 1/3 of my turnover in 2022, generated through my second best client, 2 further agencies among my best clients, another 2 agencies among my respected clients (not the biggest fish, but still worth-wile) and finally 3 smaller clients. Everyone of them pays on time and none of them works with MT (yet).
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