| Pages in topic: < [1 2] | MS Word 2007 text located in nested, floating graphics Thread poster: MamaG
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MamaG 
United States
Local time: 13:12
Member (2013)
French to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Translating off of the PDF would be easy. The problem is "how graphically nice" the final client wants this product to look, how much "like the PDF" with all its pretty composite charts etc. the final client wants it to look. A friend suggested I download Paint.net (different from the simple program we remember from Accessories, I suppose?), so I'll try that and see if I can get inside the "drawing object assemblies" better to insert text. I'd tried printing them out "as they look in Word" and t... See more Translating off of the PDF would be easy. The problem is "how graphically nice" the final client wants this product to look, how much "like the PDF" with all its pretty composite charts etc. the final client wants it to look. A friend suggested I download Paint.net (different from the simple program we remember from Accessories, I suppose?), so I'll try that and see if I can get inside the "drawing object assemblies" better to insert text. I'd tried printing them out "as they look in Word" and then physically printing out/pasting text on and scanning the whole back in, but that looks almost worse than if I'd...anyway, If I can't use Paint.net, then special software solutions will be booted viciously out the window on a race to finish the job by the deadline "however it ends up looking".
Postscript - Paint.Net! I installed it this morning after a cup of coffee. It's a great workaround. You can take small screenshots of areas that are too messy to deal with and then simply computer-type on top of them and "patch-paste" them onto a screenshot of the page (saved as a .jpg file), resize and merge/save the whole thing without a bunch of format codes telling you that you can't do this, or bumping your pasted bit into some weird corner of the screen space...recommended for people who are not graphic artists and who are facing this dilemma.
[Edited at 2014-01-03 13:23 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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Rolf Keller wrote:
(snipped)
Replace the old images in Mydoc.zip by the new ones. Make sure that all other parts of Mydoc.zip are unchanged.
Rename Mydoc.zip to Mydoc.docx. Open Mydoc.docx in Word and be happy. Or curse me for giving stupid advices.
Interesting, I might give this a try the next time I get one of these "documents from hell". I promised myself "never again" after the last time, but this workaround doesn't sound too bad.
To the OP - having been in your shoes in the past and pulled out way too much of my hair - the best solution I found was to tell the customer (agency) that I would just translate text only and put markers where necessary so they could figure out where it had to go in the final DTP'd version. They had a DTP person put everything back together. I never saw the final version, I wonder how it turned out.
| | | | | InFix to the rescue | Jan 3, 2014 |
HiMamaG,
InFix allows you to extract the text directly from the PDF file, import the extracted text into your CAT software, translate it and reincorporate the translated text into the PDF pages, without altering the page layout (graphics, etc.), so you can deliver a ready to print file. You can even change font size if needed, to make the translation fit into the available space.
I have never used it, but some translators have used it successfully, and you might even he... See more HiMamaG,
InFix allows you to extract the text directly from the PDF file, import the extracted text into your CAT software, translate it and reincorporate the translated text into the PDF pages, without altering the page layout (graphics, etc.), so you can deliver a ready to print file. You can even change font size if needed, to make the translation fit into the available space.
I have never used it, but some translators have used it successfully, and you might even hear from them right here, with more detailed information.
Here is the link to the company's site: http://www.iceni.com/.
Best of luck
[Edited at 2014-01-03 16:52 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | MamaG
United States
Local time: 13:12
Member (2013)
French to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | Thanks for all these great ideas! | Jan 3, 2014 |
Thanks, gentlemen, for these great new ideas. At this point (and as it turned out, my segment of the document is not as long as I thought, but the deadline is still grinning in the window at me...shudder...), there is no time to download and learn brand new software with a high enough probability that it will solve the basic conversion "look" problem and still allow me to get the job completed on time. The current Mickey Mouse fix will look "okay" and show the text that needs to be shown where i... See more Thanks, gentlemen, for these great new ideas. At this point (and as it turned out, my segment of the document is not as long as I thought, but the deadline is still grinning in the window at me...shudder...), there is no time to download and learn brand new software with a high enough probability that it will solve the basic conversion "look" problem and still allow me to get the job completed on time. The current Mickey Mouse fix will look "okay" and show the text that needs to be shown where it needs to be placed. It was free and easy!
When I have some spare time, I am going to test out these new suggested tricks and fixes for any future nightmare format jobs! If I'd known this one was "what it was", I would probably not have taken it. But water under the bridge, yadda, and work's work. Thank you, everyone! XO
Postscript - Example of one of the many problems I am having editing this doc. Most of one word is editable text, but for some reason, the initial capital letter of the word was instead added, in the conversion, to the image next to it, which contains a carefully positioned picture which has to stay right where it is. In the conversion, the image with its picture is roughly in the right place, but the initial letter (part of the image instead of where and what it "should" be) is situated a millimeter above the rest of the (editable text) word. Crazy.
Can't wait to try those new solutions when I have some spare time to "test, experiment and fiddle". Thx again.
[Edited at 2014-01-03 16:59 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 18:12
Member (2008)
Italian to English
You're a translator. None of these other thankless and unpaid tasks you are trying to do have got anything to do with the service you offer to your clients.
Personally I would tell the client that I'd be perfectly happy to translate their document on condition that they provide it in a form that I can work with.
Your client is just being lazy and is passing on to you (for no extra charge) a task they can't be bothered to do themselves. Oh, and also holding you to a dead... See more You're a translator. None of these other thankless and unpaid tasks you are trying to do have got anything to do with the service you offer to your clients.
Personally I would tell the client that I'd be perfectly happy to translate their document on condition that they provide it in a form that I can work with.
Your client is just being lazy and is passing on to you (for no extra charge) a task they can't be bothered to do themselves. Oh, and also holding you to a deadline !
[Edited at 2014-01-03 18:02 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | MamaG
United States
Local time: 13:12
Member (2013)
French to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | Feeling wistful | Jan 3, 2014 |
To think, when I first started out, it was just after the Cold War ended, and we had the Wang systems and a few clunky PCs for each office, and we needed typewriters, liquid white-out, glue, x-acto knive and mat to cut bits and figures out of xeroxed paper original and type the a, b, c legend on...
The IT revolution has changed translation enormously in my professional lifetime.
The posts on this thread really hammered it home to me.
I have a dear translator fr... See more To think, when I first started out, it was just after the Cold War ended, and we had the Wang systems and a few clunky PCs for each office, and we needed typewriters, liquid white-out, glue, x-acto knive and mat to cut bits and figures out of xeroxed paper original and type the a, b, c legend on...
The IT revolution has changed translation enormously in my professional lifetime.
The posts on this thread really hammered it home to me.
I have a dear translator friend who has gotten a steady stream of reliable straight-text patent jobs his whole life, and doesn't understand how the business looks to most of the rest of us these days. I was trying to explain to him. He is in a bit of a bubble out there in a rural area with his Wordperfect and dino-CRT monitor from 1980s, on dial-up! He did move to that from a typewriter and dictation equipment, but I often wonder if he'll have to change his way of doing things again in his life, and if so, how much. Have to admit, I feel wistful watching him. I hope his bubble never has to break, but for me it keeps on breaking, and the pressure to adapt/sprout legs is on again... ▲ Collapse
| | | | Rolf Keller
Germany
Local time: 19:12
English to German
| What is a translator? | Jan 4, 2014 |
Tom in London wrote:
You're a translator.
I'm not a translator, anyway. I'm a person who provides services.
Last year I wanted a burglar-proof wooden door. It had to be tailor-made because the house is rather old. So I ringed up a cabinet-maker. Of course he was able & willing to deliver & mount the locking hardware and to do the anchoring & plastering work. And he knew how to perform that work although it was no woodwork.
[Bearbeitet am 2014-01-04 10:58 GMT]
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Rolf Keller wrote: Tom in London wrote:
You're a translator. I'm not a translator, anyway. I'm a person who provides services. Last year I wanted a burglar-proof wooden door. It had to be tailor-made because the house is rather old. So I ringed up a cabinet-maker. Of course he was able & willing to deliver & mount the locking hardware and to do the anchoring & plastering work. And he knew how to perform that work although it was no woodwork. [Bearbeitet am 2014-01-04 10:58 GMT]
surely, your cabinet maker didn't charge you just for the door? Did he not include the other services in his quote?
What the OP should have done: take the translation on specifying he will charge the client more for the extra service offered, or include the extra hours spent on the conversion in the quote...
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MamaG
United States
Local time: 13:12
Member (2013)
French to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | Eyes on the horizon! | Jan 4, 2014 |
I think in some cases, agencies have to line up enough people to DO a given sizable job before they can even be chosen to translate it in the first place. They have to make sure they have the human resources to be able to do the job. They may not have seen all of the job to begin with, themselves. Just a representative sample. So, of course, nor do the translators (that is, nor do the translators see every bit of a job before taking it--just general subject, word count, level of technical langua... See more I think in some cases, agencies have to line up enough people to DO a given sizable job before they can even be chosen to translate it in the first place. They have to make sure they have the human resources to be able to do the job. They may not have seen all of the job to begin with, themselves. Just a representative sample. So, of course, nor do the translators (that is, nor do the translators see every bit of a job before taking it--just general subject, word count, level of technical language, etc.). I may be giving too much credit, but... that means a pig in a poke gets passed down...my mistake in bidding was assuming that a Word file was just a Word file ("how bad can it be?") and not a "converted Word file full of horrible format issues because it had been converted from a .PDF" (so, picturing text with some pictures!) and agreeing to a set fee based on the word count and taking into account what I thought would be the "worst" of the job, which was a PPT file. So...my bad. I don't see "fancy format" files too much. If someone tells me a file is Excel, for instance, I will say "can't take it" off the bat.
Some translators have really taken the market by the short hairs and have learned all manner of software packages. I say, good for them. They are the younger ones, I think, who have a clear idea of where the market is headed and know they have to be future-oriented in their continuing education.
It turned out my share of the project was less than I thought, which is good, and I am coming along okay with the workarounds. I'm philosophical, working hard, and have stopped panicking and fretting over it. Lesson learned - actually look at all files I'll be getting before agreeing to them, and on the fee. Not just their size, subject, etc. but more details about them. I'll do the job, take the fee quoted, try not to go blind or nuts, suck it up and move on.
In an ideal world, I would "only have to translate" and not do too many other unrelated things. But markets change, and I think you have to either sink, swim or switch. I know some translators who moved from straight translation into what you'd almost call IT/translation hybrid fields, where they are doing "computer fiddling" as much as they are translating! Economic and technological forces will take their course, as they have in other professions, and when it isn't possible anymore to make a living by old-fashioned translation alone the way we oldsters did it, due to MT and related developments, well, other opportunities will arise. No jokes about changing bed pans, please! I developed two sidelines when I saw the way translation was going, with the downward pressure on rates and greater and greater expectations. One of them went the same way as translation, and the other one is "okay" but you never know when the work will be there for you.
Looking forward to retirement in 10 years (hopefully), but before retiring, I expect to have to grit my teeth and keep on learning very different skills from those I trained in. This long in the biz is...too long!
Here's to a great 2014 to all of you nice folks (this thread certainly became more lively than I expected). May the jobs ever be in your favor! ▲ Collapse
| | | | Rolf Keller
Germany
Local time: 19:12
English to German
| Payment is a different topic | Jan 4, 2014 |
Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL wrote:
surely, your cabinet maker didn't charge you just for the door? Did he not include the other services in his quote?
The sticking point regarding Tom's argument: He didn't say "Sorry, it's not my job. I'm a just cabinet-maker, neither a locksmith nor a bricklayer nor a glazier."
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Rolf Keller wrote: Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL wrote:
surely, your cabinet maker didn't charge you just for the door? Did he not include the other services in his quote? The sticking point regarding Tom's argument: He didn't say "Sorry, it's not my job. I'm a just cabinet-maker, neither a locksmith nor a bricklayer nor a glazier."
I was illustrating the consequences of your approach... if you not are not just a cabinet maker, then you charge for the other services you offer... I agree with you, otherwise...
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