| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3] > | Poll: "A foreign accent is a sign of bravery." Thread poster: ProZ.com Staff
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Samuel Murray 
Netherlands
Local time: 07:31
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
| On losing accents quicly | Feb 3, 2020 |
Muriel Vasconcellos wrote:
In fact, it's not likely that her children had much of an accent in English anyway. Young kids *usually* don't have an accent in their learned language.
Where I live, it is common for immigrants from certain countries (I can think of a few) to retain their "non-native" accent well into the second or third generation, while with immigrants from certain other countries, it is much less noticeable.
But perhaps the "accent" that Mrs. Chua is referring to isn't so much pronouncing words in a way that shows that you're not from that region, but simply the inability to speak the local language fluently. She writes "My parents had accents — I had an accent. I was thrown into nursery school not speaking a word of English", but speaking "not a word of English" (or speaking English poorly) is not an accent problem.
| | | | Mario Freitas
Brazil
Local time: 02:31
Member (2014)
English to Portuguese
+ ...
| Totally disagree | Feb 4, 2020 |
The accent is not optional, therefore it's not a sign of anything except that the person is from a specific region/country.
This is a neo-euphemism of the snowflake era, which advocates for everything that used to be considered undue, wrong or undesirable till now.
| | | | Kay Denney
France
Local time: 07:31
French to English
jyuan_us wrote: Justin Peterson wrote:
In some cases, I suppose. Don't really understand what the point of the quote is.
The common misunderstanding accents is that they bear some relationship to one's linguistic level, or mastery of the language. Accents are not a good indicator of one's level. I know people here in Spain who speak flawless Spanish, but they have an accent. Often the Spanish don't understand why he/she does not "lose" their accent after so many years, and having such a high level. It doesn't work like that. It's kind of terminal; you reach a certain point, and it is almost impossible to lose your accent if you did not learn the language as a child, or have a special gift.
J I thought the topic is about a foreign accent Isn't it？
It is indeed, and I understood that Justin was talking about foreigners living in Spain who retain their foreign accent even though they speak Spanish very well.
Yes, speaking with a foreign accent is indeed a sign of bravery. A sign that you are willing to brave anything from a disparaging attitude to more racist reactions.
My neighbour was told he had to do a French test to prove his level in order to get a residence permit. He pointed out that he had published a book that he wrote in French (based on his thesis for which he partly studied in France) and the civil servant was very sceptical that he actually wrote it. Because he's precisely one of these people Justin was talking about, who are very fluent and can express complex ideas in a foreign language, yet still have an atrocious accent.
(In the end, he doesn't have to do a test, because he did get some kind of diploma from a French university at some point - oh and he's married to a Frenchman so they couldn't make him leave anyway!)
| | | | Kay Denney
France
Local time: 07:31
French to English
Muriel Vasconcellos wrote:
In fact, it's not likely that her children had much of an accent in English anyway.
[Edited at 2020-02-02 23:08 GMT]
Reading the excerpt provided by Samuel, I understood that the mother was preemptively telling her children this so that they wouldn't make fun of people with an accent (since they had been making fun of foreign-sounding names). Presumably the children speak with a flawless accent, but the parents and grandparents still retain their foreign accent.
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DZiW (X)
Ukraine
English to Russian
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| Define:Language / Accent | Feb 9, 2020 |
A language is just an artificially conventional and constantly changing system as means of communication, self-expression, and self-identity (origin/ strata /district /region /trade /neighborhoods and so on). Whatever they say, the society does heavily effect speakers.
First, a priori there's no "true highmen" privileged variant. Why, even 'elite' natives in the same city often have language issues with understanding each other, let alone cultural or moral speci... See more A language is just an artificially conventional and constantly changing system as means of communication, self-expression, and self-identity (origin/ strata /district /region /trade /neighborhoods and so on). Whatever they say, the society does heavily effect speakers.
First, a priori there's no "true highmen" privileged variant. Why, even 'elite' natives in the same city often have language issues with understanding each other, let alone cultural or moral specifics. (Unless they are from the same circle.)
Second, what's wrong if one is proud to be from a foreign country? No need to conceal a foreign accent or to fake a native one.
Although my musical ears enable me to closely mimic one's speaking peculiarities within a minute or two, I don't pretend to be a native. No unsolicited advice, indeed. Anyway, I often encourage shy people even with strong but still comprehensible accent to smalltalk, practicing in L2 or even L3. It often comes to good time and useful contacts!
I understand that some anglophones would prefer there were less other wannabes and English-speakers as rivals. However, considering the numbers and the ratio, isn't it Chinglish and Indiaglish what makes a new 'perceived pronunciation' now?  ▲ Collapse
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 06:31
Member (2008)
Italian to English
| An English person speaking Italian with an English accent sounds so hilarious that... | Feb 10, 2020 |
the Italians used it to overdub Laurel and Hardy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0t9ows_Bdg
[Edited at 2020-02-10 16:56 GMT]
| | | | Anne Brackenborough (X)
Germany
Local time: 07:31
German to English
| Nice idea for a novel | Feb 10, 2020 |
By the sound of it, Amy Chua was saying that a foreign accent means you have moved countries, and moving countries is brave. But actually, people move countries for all different reasons and encounter all levels of difficulty doing so. For some people, moving countries might be the easier option.
If a person has a foreign accent, but goes ahead and speaks out boldly anyway, doing their best and learning even though people laugh or frown at their accent, then that shows a certain str... See more By the sound of it, Amy Chua was saying that a foreign accent means you have moved countries, and moving countries is brave. But actually, people move countries for all different reasons and encounter all levels of difficulty doing so. For some people, moving countries might be the easier option.
If a person has a foreign accent, but goes ahead and speaks out boldly anyway, doing their best and learning even though people laugh or frown at their accent, then that shows a certain strength. But at the same time, it's not like they have a choice.
I think Ms Chua has romanticised her parents' life story a little. Or maybe I'm just a spoilsport ▲ Collapse
| | | | Mervyn Henderson (X)
Spain
Local time: 07:31
Spanish to English
+ ...
| Stanlio ed Ollio | Feb 10, 2020 |
Even those names certainly brightened up my day, Tom! I admit I didn't see the whole video, but afterwards I did find myself wondering how "Well, that's another fine mess you've gotten me into" would be rendered in Italian.
But, in a nod to another post, presumably it wouldn't end in a preposition ...
[Edited at 2020-02-10 17:54 GMT]
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| Foreign accent? | Feb 11, 2020 |
Your accent is your accent, and only becomes 'foreign' when you start talking in a language other then your native tongue.
Having said that, I speak 6 languages, but in all of them you can hear my Dutch accent, how hard I am trying to conceal it.
I have to face the fact that I am born with my 'foreign' accent and probably will die with it. I am wondering if I am the only one.
[Edited at 2020-02-11 20:28 GMT]
| | | | DZiW (X)
Ukraine
English to Russian
+ ...
| Intonation and connected speech | Feb 11, 2020 |
Considering accent (specific pronunciation) and dialect (different accent + grammar + lex), what exactly makes a foreign accent--if even two native speakers from different districts of the same city can hardly understand each other? Foreign language competence is too broad, whereas the only pragmatic criterion is it's either comprehensible or not.
While many A0-B1 shy children and B2 modest adults are reluctant to use L2 not to be mocked at (... See more Considering accent (specific pronunciation) and dialect (different accent + grammar + lex), what exactly makes a foreign accent--if even two native speakers from different districts of the same city can hardly understand each other? Foreign language competence is too broad, whereas the only pragmatic criterion is it's either comprehensible or not.
While many A0-B1 shy children and B2 modest adults are reluctant to use L2 not to be mocked at (or taught in a grammarian way as reading-writing without listening-speaking-thinking), it's not about proficiency but necessity.
I'm sure that if people really want, they will at least try to understand each other. Besides, without talking the communication would turn into epistolary, lacking much non-verbal things. Languages change and die...
No Pygmalion problem either, it takes just 30-400 hrs to develop a strong American or British accent to your liking, if you please. Motivation? ▲ Collapse
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Tom in London wrote: ProZ.com Staff wrote: This forum topic is for the discussion of the poll question ""A foreign accent is a sign of bravery."". View the poll results » A foreign accent is a sign of not being able to speak the language properly.
I disagree. Someone with a foreign accent is just speaking your language with the rule of theirs.
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I disagree. Someone with a foreign accent is just speaking your language with the rule of theirs.
It just mean that he/she is speaking a foreign language, I know very well the problem as I speak five languages but I have an Italian accent (I do not speak English with the rules of Italian).
[Edited at 2021-02-04 11:51 GMT]
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| Speaking with a foreign accent is not a sign of being unable to speak the language | Feb 6, 2021 |
I'm shocked that people here would say that having a foreign accent when speaking a language means you can't speak the language. Here in Germany, I've encountered that attitude time and again when people tell me that my German is good "but you have an accent", as if that detracts from my otherwise decent German. How on earth can anyone ever speak a foreign language with any other accent but their own? I have actually met some who can do that and I'm deeply suspicious of them? Are they just "putt... See more I'm shocked that people here would say that having a foreign accent when speaking a language means you can't speak the language. Here in Germany, I've encountered that attitude time and again when people tell me that my German is good "but you have an accent", as if that detracts from my otherwise decent German. How on earth can anyone ever speak a foreign language with any other accent but their own? I have actually met some who can do that and I'm deeply suspicious of them? Are they just "putting it on", hiding their true identity, or what?
Furthermore, when people do try to speak a foreign language like the native speakers, they often sound strange to me. A case in point: my German colleagues who tend to speak English with a posh-sounding English accent, which sounds nothing short of ridiculous to me as an Irishman! Don't they realise that a) there are roughly six times more native speakers of English in the US than in the UK and b) most Brits speak with regional and/or "uneducated" accents rather than the silly-sounding "BBC" English they're trying to imitate?
When I speak English to a non-native English speaker, I'm just glad if they have a good vocabulary, decent grammar and can understand me (many fail on all three counts). I'd never expect them to speak like a native speaker, which in English is hard anyway, as they'd have to pick the variant (American, British, Irish, etc.). ▲ Collapse
| | | | Lingua 5B
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Local time: 07:31
Member (2009)
English to Croatian
+ ...
| How harsh is the accent? | Feb 7, 2021 |
I did meet people who speak their second language with a perfect, flawless accent. They are few and far between but they do exist. Actually harsh accent may and does prevent you from being understood by monolingual native speakers. I’m not speaking about linguists, multilinguals, internationals and others who are used to dealing with varied accents, but just ordinary native speakers.
People who had a better exposure to spoken target language will have less noticeable accent. I don... See more I did meet people who speak their second language with a perfect, flawless accent. They are few and far between but they do exist. Actually harsh accent may and does prevent you from being understood by monolingual native speakers. I’m not speaking about linguists, multilinguals, internationals and others who are used to dealing with varied accents, but just ordinary native speakers.
People who had a better exposure to spoken target language will have less noticeable accent. I don’t mean TV shows etc. but real language in RL. People whose foreign language studies were more text based without any speech training will likely have a stronger accent. Of course some people acquire both, but this is more rare. ▲ Collapse
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Lingua 5B wrote:
People who had a better exposure to spoken target language will have less noticeable accent. I don’t mean TV shows etc. but real language in RL. People whose foreign language studies were more text based without any speech training will likely have a stronger accent. Of course some people acquire both, but this is more rare.
This is so true. When I studied German in school and university, our teachers didn't place near enough emphasis on proper pronunciation, despite the fact that some of them were native speakers of German themselves. Until I lived in Germany, I never really knew for instance that "a" and "ä", "o" and "ö" and "u" and "ü" are pronounced completely differently. This is pretty basic stuff but our teachers didn't bother telling us!
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