| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4] > | Poll: Should ProZ.com accept polls such as 'Are women better translators than men?' Thread poster: ProZ.com Staff
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| Polls should be worded... | Feb 3, 2006 |
Pina Nunes wrote:
A translator's ability should be based on education and/or experience, not gender. We are all masters of words. Surely the question could have been edited or worded differently in order to be more appropriate, such as "Do women approach translation differently than men?" (as Kirill pointed out in the other thread).
Pina is absolutely right, as usual.
That is what I think: it should have been worded differently. I don't know if we are all masters of words I would say that we all deal with words.
Regards.
Inés
[Edited at 2006-02-03 14:15]
[Edited at 2006-02-03 15:16]
| | | | Jo Macdonald 
Spain
Local time: 05:08
Italian to English
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| Silly poll of the month | Feb 3, 2006 |
Ok, as it’s silly polls month I’m off to start one too.
Quickie Poll
Should the girls be allowed to use such ravishing avatars?
· Yes
· Of course
· I love a little radish in me sauce
· Huh?
· This is a silly poll, I’m not voting
· Too late
| | | | PB Trans
Local time: 04:08
French to English
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Thanks for the laugh... I needed it!
By the way, I'm sure if I conducted my own poll and asked a variety of professionals (excluding translators) from different parts of the world what they would think if they saw a blunt question such as "Are female engineers better than men?" or "Are female physiotherapists better than men?" on a website or message board that represents their profession, I'm sure the greater majority would say that it is inappropriate. They would also probably que... See more Thanks for the laugh... I needed it!
By the way, I'm sure if I conducted my own poll and asked a variety of professionals (excluding translators) from different parts of the world what they would think if they saw a blunt question such as "Are female engineers better than men?" or "Are female physiotherapists better than men?" on a website or message board that represents their profession, I'm sure the greater majority would say that it is inappropriate. They would also probably question the judgement of the site administrators. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Rosa Maria Duenas Rios (X)
Local time: 23:08
Pina Nunes wrote:
By the way, I'm sure if I conducted my own poll and asked a variety of professionals (excluding translators) from different parts of the world what they would think if they saw a blunt question such as "Are female engineers better than men?" or "Are female physiotherapists better than men?" on a website or message board that represents their profession, I'm sure the greater majority would say that it is inappropriate. They would also probably question the judgement of the site administrators.
... These questions belong to the pages of Cosmopolitan or GQ, rather than to a site dedicated to professionals... but then again, Proz.com is not ONLY dedicated to professionals. As I understand it, anyone can become part of it.
HAving said this, I agree with Pina all the way.
[Edited at 2006-02-03 15:01]
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Fred Neild (X)
English to Spanish
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| Are engineers better than translators? | Feb 3, 2006 |
Pina Nunes wrote:
By the way, I'm sure if I conducted my own poll and asked a variety of professionals (excluding translators) from different parts of the world what they would think if they saw a blunt question such as "Are female engineers better than men?" or "Are female physiotherapists better than men?" on a website or message board that represents their profession, I'm sure the greater majority would say that it is inappropriate. They would also probably question the judgement of the site administrators.
Well, you have convinced me. Next time I need to know the opinion of engineers from over 100 countries I'll just drop you a line.
And, are you implying that engineers are better than translators? I didn't quite understand your example
Fred
| | | | diana bb
Lithuania
Local time: 06:08
English to Lithuanian
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| I voted 'Yes' | Feb 3, 2006 |
The fact that I found yesterday's poll ridiculous in no way means I wasn't interested in people's views. Was fun to read!
Regards,
Diana
| | | | Fred Neild (X)
English to Spanish
+ ...
| A professional environment | Feb 3, 2006 |
Rosa Maria Duenas Rios wrote:
... These questions belong to the pages of Cosmopolitan or GQ, rather than to a site dedicated to professionals
Hi Rosa,
I fully agree, but since I entered Proz.com some members, including moderators, told me that I shouldn't take Proz.com so seriously.
Well, after following this sound advice I am more satisfied with Proz.com.
A professional environment is not only determined by a single poll. In a professional environment this poll would seem so ridiculous that nobody would even spare one minute discussing it.
If somebody thinks these polls should be forbidden because they are silly (probably 50%, according to 'no' and 'I abstain' votes), well, I can name 10 other things that are far more important to achieve a professional environment at Proz.com.
So, IMHO and according to context, I voted Yes.
Fred
| | | | Woodstock (X)
Germany
Local time: 05:08
German to English
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| Men vs. Women | Feb 3, 2006 |
I voted "I don't know", because I haven't a clue and don't even want to begin speculating.
The question being discussed here is really a cultural one, and one can clearly see that in the responses. In the US and Canada (I think UK, as well - but I couldn't swear to this), discrimination on the basis of sex, age or race is strictly forbidden by law, and has been for over 30 years in the US (don't know the exact year, but certainly since around the time Affirmative Action was introd... See more I voted "I don't know", because I haven't a clue and don't even want to begin speculating.
The question being discussed here is really a cultural one, and one can clearly see that in the responses. In the US and Canada (I think UK, as well - but I couldn't swear to this), discrimination on the basis of sex, age or race is strictly forbidden by law, and has been for over 30 years in the US (don't know the exact year, but certainly since around the time Affirmative Action was introduced following Women's Lib + the Civil Rights Movement in the 1960's).
Where I live - in Germany - discrimination as above is also not permitted but I don't know to what extent (if by law or not), but no one really pays attention to it, whether it be regarding jobs or housing (I think these are the main two situations in which it can become an issue).
It took me a long time, too, to get used to seeing magazines with nude women on the covers displayed quite openly in Germany (of course, American prudishness would be an additional factor in this case, we cover everything up!), and I really dislike sexist jokes about dumb blondes, etc. which are still common and no one thinks anything of it.
So in the case of this particular poll, and similar ones, you will always get the reactions reflecting the different cultures represented here. I was a little surprised by the poll, being American, but not really offended, being also 1/2 German and living here, where not a big deal is made of it. I just started wondering about the topic: Is there really a difference, and was intrigued by it. So on the one hand, I can understand that it could offend some, but I doubt the majority would be. A little more openess and understanding is good for everyone, and having taught intercultural training for many years, I hope we can get beyond these differences. The secret of intercultural awareness is to step away from what you know and expect, and become a little more objective about other people and cultures, their customs and expectations regarding behavior. That is called the meta-communication level, i.e. talking about communicating. (This is simplifying in a major way, but I don't want to get too complicated or too wordy about all this.)
I think these kinds of discussions can be very healthy and contribute to a better mutual understanding - something there is entirely too little of in the world in recent times.
So yes, by all means throw in a poll like this now and then. It's good for us to get these topics out in the open and have honest and constructive, healthy debate on them.
It could be that that is what is much more important than the poll itself.
[Edited at 2006-02-03 15:53] ▲ Collapse
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Monika Coulson
Local time: 21:08
Member (2001)
English to Albanian
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SITE LOCALIZER | What about Tolerance? | Feb 3, 2006 |
I am sorry that I am passionate about this poll today.
What about Tolerance, my dear fellow translators?
There are people in different parts of the world that think that male translators are better than female translators, in other parts of the world there are people who think that female translators are better than male translators, and lastly there are people who don't think gender matters at all.
Even if we do not like one outcome or the other, what is ... See more I am sorry that I am passionate about this poll today.
What about Tolerance, my dear fellow translators?
There are people in different parts of the world that think that male translators are better than female translators, in other parts of the world there are people who think that female translators are better than male translators, and lastly there are people who don't think gender matters at all.
Even if we do not like one outcome or the other, what is all the fuss to stop polls like this? Aren't we democratic enough to handle opinions that are contrary to our own. no matter how intolerant they may seem to us?
I am sorry, but I believe we choose to be offended.
I did not find the poll offensive however intolerant its views may suggest: I simply expressed my opinion and watched the opinions of others.
Have a wonderful weekend everyone,
Monika
[Edited at 2006-02-03 15:52] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Eva Blanar
Hungary
Local time: 05:08
English to Hungarian
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| Silly questions are "off-topic", by their nature, so why shall we worry? | Feb 3, 2006 |
It is always interesting to see different opinions, in particular the different circumstances we are in. And sometimes we might give a little chuckle - but why not?
In the investment community, sometimes this type of mock descriptions are used (for instance, a typical Polish equity investor is a private individual, male, 30-40 years old, investing money earned as an employee, while a typical Hungarian investor on the equity market is an institutional investor, typically a foreign in... See more It is always interesting to see different opinions, in particular the different circumstances we are in. And sometimes we might give a little chuckle - but why not?
In the investment community, sometimes this type of mock descriptions are used (for instance, a typical Polish equity investor is a private individual, male, 30-40 years old, investing money earned as an employee, while a typical Hungarian investor on the equity market is an institutional investor, typically a foreign investment fund etc. You don't really compare a private person to an institutional investor, do you? Still, you have at least a feeling of what might make that market move - and such a picture can give you some very good ideas when you try to predict the market's future trend, I tell you). I assume the same thing exists in marketing and I know this is one of the issues studied in the case of polls (including exit polls, on the occasion of elections).
So what we have here, is the "average" Prozian's life/ work/ views etc. We can have a feeling of what the other members of this community think and we can state for ourselves that yes, I think like the majority of us, or: no, I am one of those who represent a (hopefully) nice exception.
The same is true for questions about our views.
Of course, sometimes silly questions also come up, but why shall we have emotions about these?
I strongly agree with a necessity of a selection (no political issues, no unethical or disgusting questions, no asking of the same question for the fifth time in a different wording), but finally, if someone, say, wishes to make a fool of himself/ herself on the web - why not let him or her do so? Finally, if we don't want to respond, we have no obligation to vote. And if that question is not simply silly, but really crazy, there will be no answers and that's it (that could be instructive, too).
A potential quick poll: men or women ask more silly questions?
(That was a joke, sorry.)
Have a nice weekend,
Eva ▲ Collapse
| | | | Dyran Altenburg (X)
United States
Local time: 23:08
English to Spanish
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| Apples and oranges | Feb 3, 2006 |
Pina Nunes wrote:
By the way, I'm sure if I conducted my own poll and asked a variety of professionals (excluding translators) from different parts of the world what they would think if they saw a blunt question such as "Are female engineers better than men?" or "Are female physiotherapists better than men?" on a website or message board that represents their profession, I'm sure the greater majority would say that it is inappropriate. They would also probably question the judgement of the site administrators.
If you word your question that way, my guess is that they would have a good chuckle at it.
Still, the fact of the matter is that the question we are talking about was posted on a site aimed at language professionals from all over the world.
I, like others, like to read different opinions based on different backgrounds, cultures, etc.
--
Dyran
| | | | | Yes, because we are also free to debate and understand and disagree and...tolerate! | Feb 3, 2006 |
I remember when I was at school (an Italian school), we had a text book in English called "For and Against". It included 10 or 12 controversial topics (some serious, some really funny or apparently irrelevant...like our polls ). The aim of the book was to stimulate debate in the classroom and to improve language speaking skills. It was always great fun and very very interesting.
I therefore believe that the best part of proz... See more I remember when I was at school (an Italian school), we had a text book in English called "For and Against". It included 10 or 12 controversial topics (some serious, some really funny or apparently irrelevant...like our polls ). The aim of the book was to stimulate debate in the classroom and to improve language speaking skills. It was always great fun and very very interesting.
I therefore believe that the best part of proz.com polls is the forum discussion, just as it used to be years ago at school.
Ciao, D. ▲ Collapse
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Kirill Semenov
Ukraine
Local time: 06:08
Member (2004)
English to Russian
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| There are so many questions to discuss | Feb 3, 2006 |
If we allow poll like this one, tomorrow we will see "Are Russians (Jews, Spaniards, Germans, etc.) better as translators than any others?", the next day: "Are Russian (Hebrew, Spanish, German) is superior than other languages?", next we will consider the dependance of language skills from our religious faith and sooner or later the question will be: "Does longer penis make a male a better translator?"
Common, we're so open-minded, why not discuss these all?! And I bet there will be... See more If we allow poll like this one, tomorrow we will see "Are Russians (Jews, Spaniards, Germans, etc.) better as translators than any others?", the next day: "Are Russian (Hebrew, Spanish, German) is superior than other languages?", next we will consider the dependance of language skills from our religious faith and sooner or later the question will be: "Does longer penis make a male a better translator?"
Common, we're so open-minded, why not discuss these all?! And I bet there will be a scientific theory proving the longer penis means less IQ. Sure, we want to know the theory! What is the most important, all these questions are about language, after all, so ProZ is the very place to discuss it. Now, let's do it, we're sick of a Big Borther watching us and telling us what we are allowed to discuss.
Please, dear colleagues, don't make me laugh. Such an approach may take us too far from the scope and the goal of the site.
[Edited at 2006-02-03 17:14] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Monika Coulson
Local time: 21:08
Member (2001)
English to Albanian
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SITE LOCALIZER | Gender differences | Feb 3, 2006 |
Dear Kirill,
I think you are over- exaggerating things now.
We are talking about Two main categories: Male gender and Female gender. Both of these genders differ from each-other: First, and obviously, we have different genders ( ) and second, we also have socially and cultural differences.
The point on the yesterday's poll (as I understood it) was: Do these (gender) differences affect our work as tra... See more Dear Kirill,
I think you are over- exaggerating things now.
We are talking about Two main categories: Male gender and Female gender. Both of these genders differ from each-other: First, and obviously, we have different genders ( ) and second, we also have socially and cultural differences.
The point on the yesterday's poll (as I understood it) was: Do these (gender) differences affect our work as translators?
We heard different opinions and that was the whole point of the poll.
Now, going into small categories, such as are Albanians better or worse than the rest of the world (of course we are whichever way you want to see it) well, this is a little bit too much in my opinion and there is no way to know, since everybody is different, there are no two people exactly the same.
Monika
Kirill Semenov wrote:
If we allow poll like this one, tomorrow we will see "Are Russians (Jews, Spaniards, Germans, etc.) better as translators than any others?", the next day: "Are Russian (Hebrew, Spanish, German) is superior than other languages?"
[Edited at 2006-02-03 19:07] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Lia Fail (X)
Spain
Local time: 05:08
Spanish to English
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Pina Nunes wrote:
Any poll that is worded as "Are/is XXX better than XXX?" is simply inappropriate. No one should be comparing anyone else's abilities, especially when it comes to gender (something people have no control over). A translator's ability should be based on education and/or experience, not gender. We are all masters of words. Surely the question could have been edited or worded differently in order to be more appropriate, such as "Do women approach translation differently than men?" (as Kirill pointed out in the other thread).
So what's next?
"Are Europeans better translators than North Americans?"
"Are Latin Americans better translators than Spaniards?"
"Are French Canadians better translators than the French?"
If those are the kind of topics you all want to discuss, I'll leave myself out of it.
It's just such a pointless and meaningless question, like the others mentioned by Pina as examples, it's a not a question of gender or nationality, etc...
'better' how? 'better' according to whom?
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