| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3] > | Poll: At what stage in a translation do you ask KudoZ questions? Thread poster: ProZ.com Staff
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| Learning how to fish | Jun 4, 2006 |
Henry Hinds wrote:
I do think askers need to refine their own search skills on the Net and find answers themselves as much as possible. Many times it is at the tip of their fingers. Once they learn how to fish they will never go hungry.
Whatever we can do to educate our colleagues in the above can help much more than merely answering Kudoz questions.
Well said, Henry.
“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today. Teach a man to fish; and you have fed him for a lifetime”—Author unknown
| | | | | Good discussion | Jun 4, 2006 |
I tend to submit questions after I can't find the answer on my own, but before I get to the end of the document. That gives colleagues time to make suggestions. I then go back to them when I'm at the end of the document, and better able to assess them. I sometimes put in a question to test what I think is the right translation.
However, we should be self-sufficient as professionals, and should avoid relying on colleagues.
| | | | | The moderators' role | Jun 4, 2006 |
Claudia Aguero wrote:
Therefore, is there a way to prevent its overuse?
Probably, moderators cannot allow questions that
- have previously been answered at KudoZ,
- that are easily found inInternet, or
- that are posted with no information or context to help colleagues.
Preventing the asking of easy questions is not part of the KudoZ moderators's role.
There is an Ask the asker box in every questions to request more context from the asker.
I quote from the document "ProZ.com Moderators - Their Role" available at http://www.proz.com/?sp=info/team&ssp=team&sssp=moderators
"However, it should be understood that moderators do not serve to any degree as linguistic authorities."
Regards,
Enrique
| | | | | Filtering KudoZ questions | Jun 5, 2006 |
[quote]Enrique wrote:
Preventing the asking of easy questions is not part of the KudoZ moderators's role.
There is an Ask the asker box in every questions to request more context from the asker.
I was really thinking of not allowing the questions before they are posted. Whenever we ask a question, the asker receives an email, which advise him that the question was accepted. It is in this stage of the process, when I propose to filter questions.
I know there is an Ask the asker box, but our help could be faster and more efficient by not having to request for more context or referring back to previous KudoZ questions.
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Gina W
United States
Local time: 11:11
Member (2003)
French to English
| You can choose not to receive those email notifications | Jun 5, 2006 |
Claudia Aguero wrote:
I was really thinking of not allowing the questions before they are posted. Whenever we ask a question, the asker receives an email, which advise him that the question was accepted. It is in this stage of the process, when I propose to filter questions.
Not receiving all those email notifications is an option. Ignoring questions is also an option. As is showing tolerance and trying not to be judgmental of askers. While there may be those who try to take advantage, there also are plenty of those who post legitimate KudoZ questions. An Asker has a right to do so without having his/her motives always be so suspect.
I know someone who doesn't post KudoZ (valid and good) questions yet instead posts elsewhere for terminology help. IMO, this site then suffers since then the KudoZ glossary is not being built up. No matter how "easy" a term is, the end result of an asker posting a term is that it is forever in the KudoZ glossary / old questions database. That means that anyone at any time in the future can benefit from that question.
| | | | Fan Gao
Australia
Local time: 01:11
English to Chinese
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| Reduce Points | Jun 5, 2006 |
Lia wrote "Displaying this Qasked/Q answered information would 'tighten up' the site, people would be encouraged to contribute more, and also to go off and research more before posting questions. "
Tried to quote but it included a quote within a quote so I captioned it like this instead!
Good suggestion by Lia to show questions asked as well as answered.
Another alternative could be to knock off a Kudoz point for every question asked. That might deter peop... See more Lia wrote "Displaying this Qasked/Q answered information would 'tighten up' the site, people would be encouraged to contribute more, and also to go off and research more before posting questions. "
Tried to quote but it included a quote within a quote so I captioned it like this instead!
Good suggestion by Lia to show questions asked as well as answered.
Another alternative could be to knock off a Kudoz point for every question asked. That might deter people from overusing and abusing the system.
Mark ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Filtering KudoZ looks not practical | Jun 5, 2006 |
Claudia Aguero wrote:
I was really thinking of not allowing the questions before they are posted. Whenever we ask a question, the asker receives an email, which advise him that the question was accepted. It is in this stage of the process, when I propose to filter questions.
I know there is an Ask the asker box, but our help could be faster and more efficient by not having to request for more context or referring back to previous KudoZ questions.
The problem with this approach is that computers are not suited for this kind of filtering. Currently the context field is mandatory, but a human can fool it by inserting some meaningless content such as "that's it" or "Yes". In fact this is what many KudoZ answerers do in the mandatory explanation field.
Also the system shows you the glossary entries if you ask something already there and only then it lets you post a question, but askers may ignore this because they may feel their question is unique.
On the other hand human filtering would be fully unreasonable. On the one hand it would slow down KudoZ so much that it would render it useless, and it would impose a huge burden to our moderators (we have almost 1,400,000 questions already!).
Besides, as stated in my earlier posting, moderators do not serve to any degree as linguistic authorities.
Regards,
Enrique
| | | | | What is this topic discussion about, the poll or KudoZ? | Jun 5, 2006 |
I know that KudoZ involve so many passions that it's hard to resist, but this topic should focus on the poll and not be one more topic about KudoZ.
I find it very interesting that the those who are the most represented in the poll (those who ask "After researching a while 45.2%") are not those who voice their concern about asking KudoZ in the right manner here (although there are some who take part in the discussion).
I guess that it's difficult for those who ask "As so... See more I know that KudoZ involve so many passions that it's hard to resist, but this topic should focus on the poll and not be one more topic about KudoZ.
I find it very interesting that the those who are the most represented in the poll (those who ask "After researching a while 45.2%") are not those who voice their concern about asking KudoZ in the right manner here (although there are some who take part in the discussion).
I guess that it's difficult for those who ask "As soon as they come up" to show here and say why they do it like that.
Claudia ▲ Collapse
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| The info is there! | Jun 5, 2006 |
Lia Fail wrote:
However, the limits imposed could be supplemented by another measure that would in a more balanced way ensure that soem people do not squeeze the site for all its worth, asking fairly facile questions, rather than researching them.
There is a 'questions asked' counter and a 'questions answered' counter. But this info is hidden away - it is not displayed VISIBLY in a MEANINGFUL way. A percentage could be calculated based on this data and displayed visibly for each member that would show what percenatge of questions they ask compared to questions they answer.
In my case I have answered about 700 more questions than I have asked, but I have seen a person who has answered 1 question for every 200 asked! And it's not as if the questions are especially difficult...ProZers are being used (abused?) as a free and fast source of translation problem resolution.
Displaying this Qasked/Q answered information would 'tighten up' the site, people would be encouraged to contribute more, and also to go off and research more before posting questions.
But Lia, we have this already and I find its display very meaningful! When you open a question, passing the mouse over the asker's name will show:
- amount of questions asked
- amount of asked questions that remain open
- amount of questions anwered
Regards,
Enrique
| | | | | So, could you answer the question then, Henry H.? | Jun 5, 2006 |
Henry Hinds wrote:
I am also one of those people who do not ask Kudoz questions that you wanted to hear from.
Thanks for your thoughtful comments. Always delighted to hear from you, Henry! Since I "know" you from the Spanish & English community, I know that what you write is always worth reading.
That being said, what I wanted to hear from you folks who don't ask KudoZ questions was: Why?
Claudia Iglesias wrote:
What is this topic discussion about, the poll or KudoZ?
I know that KudoZ involve so many passions that it's hard to resist, but this topic should focus on the poll and not be one more topic about KudoZ.
I agree. Could we please get back on topic? I'd really like to hear from others about their personal use of KudoZ questions.
| | | | Henry Hinds 
United States
Local time: 09:11
English to Spanish
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In memoriam
I don't ask Kudoz questions because I learned how to fish. First I fish in the mind, then I fish on the Net. Both of those resources have to be used to their maximum potential to find answers, and the first one is by far the most important, for without it, the second is not nearly as useful.
It was good to come up in an era when outside resources were either non-existent (the Net) or very limited (dictionaries, colleagues to consult, etc.), because it forces one to develop the mind.... See more I don't ask Kudoz questions because I learned how to fish. First I fish in the mind, then I fish on the Net. Both of those resources have to be used to their maximum potential to find answers, and the first one is by far the most important, for without it, the second is not nearly as useful.
It was good to come up in an era when outside resources were either non-existent (the Net) or very limited (dictionaries, colleagues to consult, etc.), because it forces one to develop the mind. Now we have come out of isolation, and today it is so easy to resort to outside resources. I think that situation may be inhibiting some people from developing their own skills.
There is nothing like being out there alone on the vast ocean with only yourself to depend on. I know there are those out there who do make the extra effort and gain the edge, it shows they really want to learn how to fish.
Kudoz is also a good fishing expedition where a lot of answers may be found without asking any questions. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Brandis (X)
Local time: 17:11
English to German
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| I am a slow head | Jun 5, 2006 |
Hi !
usually after the second round, after I have checked up various term bases and open glossaries etc., and the finishing etc., I get to Kudoz, because here you have real help online. I go a very long way with Henry.Best Brandis
[Edited at 2006-06-05 16:25]
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Dyran Altenburg (X)
United States
Local time: 11:11
English to Spanish
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JaneTranslates wrote:
That being said, what I wanted to hear from you folks who don't ask KudoZ questions was: Why?
No need.
I either find the answers myself (I've been honing my research skills for years, both on-line and off-line), or I ask trusted colleagues directly (through instant messaging/Skype).
I find it's faster and I get the best answers this way.
As for wading through the KOG in search of the rare pearl that could be hiding there... I'd rather use the time to play WoW.
--
Dyran
| | | | Nesrin
United Kingdom
Local time: 16:11
English to Arabic
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| There's something wrong with this poll! | Jun 5, 2006 |
I'm sorry, I know I kind of pointed this out already, but it seems that nobody has really picked up on the inherent problem with this poll (except for me and Nikki).
We're asked "At what STAGE IN A TRANSLATION do you ask KudoZ questions?" The question merely refers to the point in time during our translation in which we ask the Kudoz questions. This means that nobody should really be ashamed of replying "As soon as they come up", as this well may involve extensive research on the internet ... See more I'm sorry, I know I kind of pointed this out already, but it seems that nobody has really picked up on the inherent problem with this poll (except for me and Nikki).
We're asked "At what STAGE IN A TRANSLATION do you ask KudoZ questions?" The question merely refers to the point in time during our translation in which we ask the Kudoz questions. This means that nobody should really be ashamed of replying "As soon as they come up", as this well may involve extensive research on the internet and dictionaries before actually asking the question (BUT not putting off the asking until reaching the end of the text).
"Final stage/last resort" is actually two answers in one, "Final stage" referring to the final stage of the translation, while "last resort" to the final stage of the SEARCH for the term translation.
So although the poll is purely indicative of different working methods (all of them valid!), the discussion here seems to be classifying those who reply "Final stage" as the good guys and those who reply "as soon as they come up" as the lazy translators!
I wonder what your thoughts are about that, Jane? ▲ Collapse
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Nesrin wrote:
So although the poll is purely indicative of different working methods (all of them valid!), the discussion here seems to be classifying those who reply "Final stage" as the good guys and those who reply "as soon as they come up" as the lazy translators!
Yes, because some don't consider that "all of them (are) valid". The problem is not with the poll, which will give a better idea of how things work rather than the discussion.
Claudia
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