| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8] > | Poll: Would you agree with lowering the weekly limits of KudoZ questions to 45/15 for member/non-members? Thread poster: ProZ.com Staff
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savaria (X)
Hungary
Local time: 04:23
English to Hungarian
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| I think in this feature no distinction should be made between members and non members | Jul 30, 2006 |
I completely agree with those who say that limitless Kudoz askings would definitely reveal that the asker is incompetent in the issue,and also in the fact that it would unnecessarily overburden the system of proz.com.
Still,I say that the limits should be increased,so to say,be pushed a bit higher.
What would happen if everybody could ask 21 questions a week?That means 3 a day.I think it is absolutely acceptable.If somebody asks more than 3 questions in connection with... See more I completely agree with those who say that limitless Kudoz askings would definitely reveal that the asker is incompetent in the issue,and also in the fact that it would unnecessarily overburden the system of proz.com.
Still,I say that the limits should be increased,so to say,be pushed a bit higher.
What would happen if everybody could ask 21 questions a week?That means 3 a day.I think it is absolutely acceptable.If somebody asks more than 3 questions in connection with a text,then I think he/she should not call himself/herself a translator.
And in this feature I think we shouldn't distinguish between paying and non paying registered persosns.Why would a payer be more intelligent or anything like that than a non-payer ?(And at this point let's forget about the motives)
Thank you for your attention. ▲ Collapse
| | | | paula arturo 
United States
Local time: 22:23
Spanish to English
+ ...
| Do people really need to ask that many questions? | Jul 30, 2006 |
Mitsuko Moine wrote: Magda Dziadosz wrote: you use your collegues to do the job for you, right?  Magda kero wrote:
I think the present limit is ok. I sometimes have urgent jobs that need to be completed in just a few hours so I do not have enough time to check everything in google and i just use kudoz. Why would users want a reduction? That is what I thought too after reading your post, Kero. I came across this Google service the other day: http://answers.google.com/answers/ With all due respect, if you need someone to help you with Internet search or checking things on Google, then that would be a great solution.
I became a non-paying member in 2003 and a platinum member last year. In my three years here, I've asked a grand total of 30 questions for which I got really helpful answers (most of the time), but that's still 10 questions a year. I don't see how anyone could possibly ask 60 questions a month. I mean seriously, how many questions a day do people really ask?
| | | | | Made me think... | Jul 30, 2006 |
Gillian Scheibelein wrote:
After 25 years of translation, my dictionaries are well-filled and my googling skills are honed so I need less help. I realise that beginners will need to post more questions than old hands, but I think quite a large proportion of the questions could be reduced by simple googling. After all, this will also turn up related texts and reference materials as well. Nevertheless, 45 questions/week is a very high limit and should be sufficient for anyone who has not taken on a translation that is over their heads. Just imagine if 100 or so actually went for this limit in a particular language pair (notably the major languages), the quality of the answers would suffer as no-one would have time to take a look at them all, not even the point grabbers. And with so many up for grabs, Kudoz points would become meaningless; the total would reflect the time spent researching for others rather than actually working.
One thing that does bother me though is the increasing number of "takers" on this site, such as people with over 1000 questions asked and 5 answered. Are they incompetent, selfish or just totally lazy? Is their time too precious to waste on helping others who have helped them? I am all for discouraging such behaviour if possible.
I have to say that Gillian made a good point here and seen from that ankle I actually do agree. I also see Kudoz as a last resort on a fair based balance of give and take. I presume that this opinion is widly spread and the contrary is only the exception, but it might be that I am wrong with it.
| | | | | Beginners should also learn how to help their peers. | Jul 30, 2006 |
One thing that does bother me though is the increasing number of "takers" on this site, such as people with over 1000 questions asked and 5 answered. Are they incompetent, selfish or just totally lazy? Is their time too precious to waste on helping others who have helped them? I am all for discouraging such behaviour if possible. [/quote]
I have to say that Gillian made a good point here and seen from that ankle I actually do agree. I also see Kudoz as a last resort on a fair based... See more One thing that does bother me though is the increasing number of "takers" on this site, such as people with over 1000 questions asked and 5 answered. Are they incompetent, selfish or just totally lazy? Is their time too precious to waste on helping others who have helped them? I am all for discouraging such behaviour if possible. [/quote]
I have to say that Gillian made a good point here and seen from that ankle I actually do agree. I also see Kudoz as a last resort on a fair based balance of give and take. I presume that this opinion is widly spread and the contrary is only the exception, but it might be that I am wrong with it. [/quote]
From a non-member, active Kudoz user: I think a balanced and useful approach - to promote quality and reciprocity of efforts - would be to impose a ceiling not on any one's number of questions but on the answers-to-questions ratio for any Kudoz user; a 7-to-1 ratio limit would flush the "takers" out of the system and/or put their asking drive on hold until they have offered a decent number of answers to their peers to adjust their current ratio. That would help askers help themselves (doing research) while also train them to become "givers" rather than "takers" - an approach more in line with the general philosophy of this website that would remove any absolute ceiling (a user may ask 49 questions in any period of time if he/she has provided 7 answers during the same period). The system could be adjusted by factoring in kudoz points, i.e. 7 questions to 1 successful answer. The member/non-member status discrimination could be maintained (e.g. 10-to-1 or 15-to-1 for Members). ▲ Collapse
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Aurora Humarán (X)
Argentina
Local time: 23:23
English to Spanish
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| Other ways of helping (and even those who don't help at all!!!) | Jul 30, 2006 |
Some prozians help by incorporating valuable glossaries to the site; others contribute in the fora with articles, triggering subjects, or their replies to specific grammar or other language related topics; others contribute off line; others with their own articles; others have been helping with the localization process, others accept to be ModZ.
If I am going to share an interesting article in the Spanish Forum, I don't care if it is read by people who never 'contribute' in any way.... See more Some prozians help by incorporating valuable glossaries to the site; others contribute in the fora with articles, triggering subjects, or their replies to specific grammar or other language related topics; others contribute off line; others with their own articles; others have been helping with the localization process, others accept to be ModZ.
If I am going to share an interesting article in the Spanish Forum, I don't care if it is read by people who never 'contribute' in any way.
I don't share this credit-debit approach some are proposing. Nobody is obliged to contribute. As far I see it, this is what ProZ.com is about.
Au
[Editado a las 2006-07-30 17:45] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Aurora Humarán (X)
Argentina
Local time: 23:23
English to Spanish
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| Last resort? It depends... | Jul 30, 2006 |
I wouldn't like anybody to come and tell me how I should rank my sources, say:
1) First go to Cabanellas
2) Then go to Mazzuco
3) Then investigate in the web
4) Hm...may be the Blacks' Law should be third...
5) Ok, now go to KudoZ!!!!
That would suggest that any prozian would know more than Cabanellas, Mazzuco, any reliable source in the Internet, the Blacks's Law... to become sort of Supreme Court or ... if the good reply came from a prozian th... See more I wouldn't like anybody to come and tell me how I should rank my sources, say:
1) First go to Cabanellas
2) Then go to Mazzuco
3) Then investigate in the web
4) Hm...may be the Blacks' Law should be third...
5) Ok, now go to KudoZ!!!!
That would suggest that any prozian would know more than Cabanellas, Mazzuco, any reliable source in the Internet, the Blacks's Law... to become sort of Supreme Court or ... if the good reply came from a prozian this could prove that SOME questions MAY need a human being (translator) as a first source.
Sometimes KudoZ are my last resort; sometimes they are my first resort (I am thinking of most of the Katrina stuff I translated couple of months ago: I received much better and faster help here... [I translate news releases]) I have never abused in the KudoZ section I don't think that I lack judgement to decide where to go for help.
Also, sometimes I go to KudoZ to 'speak' with fellow prozians, get different insights.
There are so many other possible worlds and I would never intend the rest to see kudoZ as I see them. How could I?
Please, let's widen our viewpoints: some people may have reasons to make 16 questions in a day. Strange? Yes! Very strange. (Life is strange ) But it MAY happen. What if somebody came and told me that I can only open my West legal dictionary twice a day?
Au
[Editado a las 2006-07-30 18:02] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Mats Wiman
Sweden
Local time: 04:23
Member (2000)
German to Swedish
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In memoriam | Compress the question list! | Jul 30, 2006 |
Charlie Bavington wrote:
I admit I'm not a supporter of the attitude that the Kudoz system is used to help people take on jobs they otherwise wouldn't manage to complete, either through lack of time or lack of willingness or lack of skill to do their own research. But, as others have said, live and let live - the filter exists, I can (and do) ignore them, others ARE willing to help (or do other people's work for them), etc. All well and good - up to point.
But what DOES annoy me is the knock-on effect on other askers when one or two individuals decide to post an entire batch of questions in a short space of time, which is to push earlier questions further down the kudoz questions list, and ultimately off the first page, where they sink into oblivion. Answers are rarely proposed once a question is on page 2 (or later) on the kudiz list, in my experience. Hence I would like to see stricter limits imposed, if only in the interests of giving EVERYONE a fair chance to get answers to their questions.
I have for 4 years suggested a solution to this:
Every asker should get only one line (containing only his her first question - the other questions should be possible to click up if you find this first question interesting/enticing or the asker worth helping).
Thus no other question would rapidly be pushed downwards by a mega-asker.
Uninteresting mega-askers could nowadays also be excluded entirely with the aid of the dashboard.
In other words:
Invite everyone selectively (old ProZ.com Golden principle) and stop being nasty to the less qualified (who wasn't one once?).
We could then end these ever circling endless discussions and start being nice to one another again.
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To Aurora : my credit-debit system (if you like to view it this way) was only referring to the KudoZ section, not to the Proz.com website as a whole. I think a relative figure (a ratio) would be more flexible and equitable than an absolute number of questions abitrarily set for a given time period (week, day or month). To a degree, each user should "earn" his/her right to post any number of questions he needs by putting up his/her fair share of efforts.
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Andrea Hauer
Germany
Local time: 04:23
English to German
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| Against a ration like proposed by Francis ... | Jul 30, 2006 |
Francis Marche wrote:
I think a relative figure (a ratio) would be more flexible and equitable than an absolute number of questions abitrarily set for a given time period (week, day or month). To a degree, each user should "earn" his/her right to post any number of questions he needs by putting up his/her fair share of efforts.
There are people who are not willing to or who can't answer to Kudoz-questions for whatever reason. With a system using a relative figure (a ratio) you would limit the users of proz.com to a rather small community. I LOVE proz.com like it is (open and open-minded) and - like in EVERY other open community -, there are surely cases of abuse - but the majority of us - in my opinion - uses proz.com in a very serious and balanced way of taking and giving. I really can't understand this discussion because I don't think AT ALL that there are lots of peers who abuse the kudoz-questions. And if I would have the impression that one does, I always have the possibility to boycott them ...
| | | | Aurora Humarán (X)
Argentina
Local time: 23:23
English to Spanish
+ ...
| Hola, Francis. | Jul 30, 2006 |
Francis Marche wrote:
To Aurora : my credit-debit system (if you like to view it this way) was only referring to the KudoZ section, not to the Proz.com website as a whole. I think a relative figure (a ratio) would be more flexible and equitable than an absolute number of questions abitrarily set for a given time period (week, day or month). To a degree, each user should "earn" his/her right to post any number of questions he needs by putting up his/her fair share of efforts.
I don't know whether to say bonjour or bonsoir
I understand and (needless to say!) I respect your point, but I don't agree. I can't help taking into account the whole picture within the prozian community.
And I repeat: I have always been against the daily/weekly/whateverly limit in the KudoZ arena.
Regards from sunny Buenos Aires!
Au
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Gábor Széles wrote:
I completely agree with those who say that limitless Kudoz askings would definitely reveal that the asker is incompetent in the issue,and also in the fact that it would unnecessarily overburden the system of proz.com.
Still,I say that the limits should be increased,so to say,be pushed a bit higher.
What would happen if everybody could ask 21 questions a week?That means 3 a day.I think it is absolutely acceptable.If somebody asks more than 3 questions in connection with a text,then I think he/she should not call himself/herself a translator.
And in this feature I think we shouldn't distinguish between paying and non paying registered persosns.Why would a payer be more intelligent or anything like that than a non-payer ?(And at this point let's forget about the motives)
Thank you for your attention.
Thie thread is about the two options presented for weekly limits (60/20 and 45/15). We do not plan to modify our approach concerning different levels for members/non-members.
Regards,
Enrique
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Charlie Bavington wrote:
....I thought I would.
I admit I'm not a supporter of the attitude that the Kudoz system is used to help people take on jobs they otherwise wouldn't manage to complete, either through lack of time or lack of willingness or lack of skill to do their own research. But, as others have said, live and let live - the filter exists, I can (and do) ignore them, others ARE willing to help (or do other people's work for them), etc. All well and good - up to point.
But what DOES annoy me is the knock-on effect on other askers when one or two individuals decide to post an entire batch of questions in a short space of time, which is to push earlier questions further down the kudoz questions list, and ultimately off the first page, where they sink into oblivion. Answers are rarely proposed once a question is on page 2 (or later) on the kudiz list, in my experience. Hence I would like to see stricter limits imposed, if only in the interests of giving EVERYONE a fair chance to get answers to their questions.
Hi Charlie,
We are talking about weekly limits here. Weekly limits will not have a significant effect or home page KudoZ. Only daily limits would, but they are not the topic of this thread.
Regards,
Enrique
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| Thinking back and forth... | Jul 30, 2006 |
... about the whole discussion,
I am still most thankful for the opion of Matts and can say that I at least agree totally with him.
As said above, I think Gillian made a good point but thinking fairly long about it..... are there really that many who ABUSE Kudoz????
I do not think so. And yes, I see a certain behaviour that I do not like but it goes into both directions.
Either a "greedy point grabbing" sort of post (mostly in the form of a di... See more ... about the whole discussion,
I am still most thankful for the opion of Matts and can say that I at least agree totally with him.
As said above, I think Gillian made a good point but thinking fairly long about it..... are there really that many who ABUSE Kudoz????
I do not think so. And yes, I see a certain behaviour that I do not like but it goes into both directions.
Either a "greedy point grabbing" sort of post (mostly in the form of a disagree/neutral) that is unpolite and not very helpful to none (asker and colleagues) from people who have already thousands of points...
or people creating a profile for one (!) question that will never be graded (and those who are constantly not grading but that is another topic)...
So, if one is honest, there is abuse also from people that are "contributing" to Kudoz in the sense that they are not "fair" to their colleagues and their opinions. Thanks god it is a minority. But I don't know how many times I had to remember other answerers that it is up to the asker to decide what the best solution is and that they please should stay fair in the way they treat people who posted other answers.
Still I do not assume that all translators with more than 1000 points do not have good manners.... ;O)
[Edited at 2006-07-30 18:58]
[Edited at 2006-07-30 18:59] ▲ Collapse
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Mats Wiman wrote:
I have for 4 years suggested a solution to this:
Every asker should get only one line (containing only his her first question - the other questions should be possible to click up if you find this first question interesting/enticing or the asker worth helping)....
Assuming you mean one line per day (we should be reasonable about this ), then yes, that would certainly seem to solve the problem. But this is clearly Very Off Topic and we should discuss it No Further, for fear that Enrique will become Very Annoyed Indeed....
Unless you mean one line per week, in which case it's like a weekly limit and we can talk about it all you like...
| | | | Comunican
United Kingdom
Local time: 03:23
Spanish to English
+ ...
| what's wrong with asking Kudoz questions? | Jul 30, 2006 |
It's a fair cop! I am one of the people who asks quite a lot of KUDOZ questions.
Many of them are double-checking to make sure that I deliver good work, and some are because I simply don't know the word, due to lack of familiarity with the subject or weakness in my Spanish.
I make no apologies for this. Like everyone, I am trying to make a living. In doing so I sometimes take on texts that are not specialist subjects for me. But what should I do? Turn them down? Or f... See more It's a fair cop! I am one of the people who asks quite a lot of KUDOZ questions.
Many of them are double-checking to make sure that I deliver good work, and some are because I simply don't know the word, due to lack of familiarity with the subject or weakness in my Spanish.
I make no apologies for this. Like everyone, I am trying to make a living. In doing so I sometimes take on texts that are not specialist subjects for me. But what should I do? Turn them down? Or find - usually at short notice - a fellow Proz member who is specialist in the subject but who would likely be offended at the rate per word on offer?
For me, Kudoz is a good opportunity for question answerers to raise their status in the translating community: when I have been looking for a translator, I have taken account of the number of Kudoz points a translator has in the specific area.
Another point is this: it's not just one big freebie for question askers: I have had some completely inaccurate and misleading responses to my questions. Fortunately, I tend to know, more or less, what the answer should be. But had I taken them on face value, suggested answers could have landed me in trouble. Having said that, I REALLY appreciate and value the help I get from those who do accurately answer my questions.
In support of heavy questioners: ANSWERING THEM IS NOT OBLIGATORY! Furthermore, we all have the ability to "turn off" the setting for receiving questions in the first place.
One last point: given that the whole system is completely automated, and we all have personal control over our settings, why do Proz care even about this topic?? I have my theories about that, but I shall say nothing for now! The whole point of a "community" - if that's what Proz is - is that some people need more support than others at different times... ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8] > | To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator: You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request » Poll: Would you agree with lowering the weekly limits of KudoZ questions to 45/15 for member/non-members? | TM-Town | Manage your TMs and Terms ... and boost your translation business
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