| Pages in topic: < [1 2] | Poll: Do you adjust quality depending on rate (better rate gets more)? Thread poster: ProZ.com Staff
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Ladislav Filo (X) 
Slovakia
Local time: 19:56
English to Slovak
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| It is more complex | Sep 2, 2006 |
The question looks very simply, but it is more complex. It is not only bad rate-bad quality and good rate-good quality.
Just immagine a situation when you agreed with client a rate per word and then he says that he will pay nothing for repetitions and 100 percent matches. And there are many repetitions of German text "Aussenlager in" what can mean "External storage area in" or "External storage areas in", depending on context. Would you check and correct every one instance of this text for... See more The question looks very simply, but it is more complex. It is not only bad rate-bad quality and good rate-good quality.
Just immagine a situation when you agreed with client a rate per word and then he says that he will pay nothing for repetitions and 100 percent matches. And there are many repetitions of German text "Aussenlager in" what can mean "External storage area in" or "External storage areas in", depending on context. Would you check and correct every one instance of this text for no charge?
Sometimes there is a list of products with different colors, when the color, e. g. "Red" can have different forms in slavonian languages, depending on singular-plural or masculine-feminine meaning. Would you ckeck and correct every one instance of these words for no charge?
I think this should be also considered when answering this question.
Or try to answer slight "overformulation" of the poll question: Should the client paying you less get the same quality as if he paid more? And when you say "Yes", think about why should he pay you more? ▲ Collapse
| | | | Steven Capsuto
United States
Local time: 13:56
Member (2004)
Spanish to English
+ ...
| I don't think of it as "adjusting quality," but... | Sep 2, 2006 |
My goal is to give every client an outstanding translation. Quality and my reputation for quality are important to me.
However, in practice, clients who pay particularly well often get a better product. Why? Because I'm particularly keen to get their business again. So, even though I don't plan it that way, I frequently give their projects one or two more readthroughs for editing and proofreading than I might if time were tight on a less well-paying job.
In other words... See more My goal is to give every client an outstanding translation. Quality and my reputation for quality are important to me.
However, in practice, clients who pay particularly well often get a better product. Why? Because I'm particularly keen to get their business again. So, even though I don't plan it that way, I frequently give their projects one or two more readthroughs for editing and proofreading than I might if time were tight on a less well-paying job.
In other words, every client is getting an accurate, natural sounding translation, but sometimes the better-paying clients get a slightly more polished target text. This doesn't strike me as unreasonable. If you pay more for a car, you typically get a better car.
[Edited at 2006-09-02 09:34] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Steven Capsuto
United States
Local time: 13:56
Member (2004)
Spanish to English
+ ...
| Righteous indignation over this question is off the mark | Sep 2, 2006 |
It's fascinating the number of people who are reading the idea of "low quality" into a perfectly reasonable question that doesn't mention that concept at all. "Adjust" can, of course, mean upward instead of downward.
[Edited at 2006-09-02 09:30]
| | | | | Revision costs | Sep 2, 2006 |
Quality means Revision from an other translator, and this costs.
Quality means that I am not satisfied with the first solution and I seek for better forms and terms. This requires more time.
There are clients who just need to know what the original text says: "for-information" translation can generally be produced faster and more cheaply than "for-publication" work (see please ITI's Translation Getting It Right, page 9).
So, I think that 8% has answered may... See more Quality means Revision from an other translator, and this costs.
Quality means that I am not satisfied with the first solution and I seek for better forms and terms. This requires more time.
There are clients who just need to know what the original text says: "for-information" translation can generally be produced faster and more cheaply than "for-publication" work (see please ITI's Translation Getting It Right, page 9).
So, I think that 8% has answered maybe someway near this question: Are you able to offer both "for-information" and "for-publication" translations? ▲ Collapse
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Parrot
Spain
Local time: 19:56
Spanish to English
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| In a certain sense, it's built-in | Sep 2, 2006 |
i.e., if the rate doesn't give an agency a budget for proofreading, the job won't be proofread.
If a sliding scale forces a translator to produce 80,000 words in a month to meet the same financial targets as he normally would for 50,000, he could get sloppy.
But note that these cases are not deliberate and may be better-covered by the concept of working conditions. I.e., if working conditions are bad, it affects the product adversely.
But -- all othe... See more i.e., if the rate doesn't give an agency a budget for proofreading, the job won't be proofread.
If a sliding scale forces a translator to produce 80,000 words in a month to meet the same financial targets as he normally would for 50,000, he could get sloppy.
But note that these cases are not deliberate and may be better-covered by the concept of working conditions. I.e., if working conditions are bad, it affects the product adversely.
But -- all other things being equal and manageable except for rate -- Henry's right, it would take an added effort to be bad, or worse than normal, just for the sake of the rate.
Is it worth it? I think not. So I don't accept, period.
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| | | | Kpy
France
Local time: 19:56
Member (2010)
French to English
+ ...
| Better quality for higher rates is unethical. | Sep 2, 2006 |
Enrique wrote: CMJ_Trans wrote:
And, Enrique,with all due respect, you should be ashamed to have even suggested such a poll. Anyone who answers that low pay means low quality in their book, should be booted off the site and, more importantly, out of the profession PDQ.
Why ashamed? I believe this is a valid question. Questions help us learn and debate. Some people may have good quality for normal rates and even better quality for higher rates. You may have customers who pay extra money but demand extra quality. Regards, Enrique
I'm a qualified lawyer.
Imagine if , while I was in practice, I'd told a client that he could "have good quality for normal rates and even better quality for higher rates."
In my book it is absolutely unethical to deliver anything but your very best work, even if the job turns out to be more difficult than you first thought.
You can tell a client that the text doesn't fall within your expertise, but that you'll help him as best you can - pointing out any doubts you may have about the text delivered, and charge accordingly, but that is quite different to suggesting that you can do better work for a higher fee.
| | | | CMJ_Trans (X)
Local time: 19:56
French to English
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| Sorry but I'm not convinced | Sep 2, 2006 |
For Enrique: "Some people may have good quality for normal rates and even better quality for higher rates. You may have customers who pay extra money but demand extra quality."
In this he is supported by Angioletta Garbarino: "The question is not "poorer rate bad quality", the question is better rate better quality, at least this is what I understand"
Sorry but I still cannot see it. I agree wholeheartedly with Kpy, our lawyer colleague, who refers to this as "unethical... See more For Enrique: "Some people may have good quality for normal rates and even better quality for higher rates. You may have customers who pay extra money but demand extra quality."
In this he is supported by Angioletta Garbarino: "The question is not "poorer rate bad quality", the question is better rate better quality, at least this is what I understand"
Sorry but I still cannot see it. I agree wholeheartedly with Kpy, our lawyer colleague, who refers to this as "unethical".
If, for more money, you can do better, then you should be working to this better standard all the time. Whether you like it or not, the implication is that for clients who pay low rates, anything goes.... If the price is too low, you should refuse the job. If for whatever reason, you are forced to accept despite the rates, then by accepting, you have tacitely agreed to do your best, whatever that may be. You have a moral duty to your client. As an end client, that's how I see it. And as a translator there is no reason for me to see it any other way.
Now, if you had formulated the question otherwise, maybe my response would have been different. For example, would you add extra services for extra money? If asked, I am always happy to proof-read and correct texts in the pdf in preparation for publication (e.g. annual reports). Often little errors slip in at that stage, such as wrongly split words or forgotten captions, etc. and it pays to have someone mother tongue to check all this out. As it happens, in such cases, the rate charged should allow for this frm the outset and the client would normally understand that and still prefer to work with an old but relatively more expensive partner because of the extra time and care. But none of this should be an excuse for sloppy work at lower rates.
So I'm back where I started. We live in a world dogged by double standards. Let's not let them creep into the translation profession as well.
Have a good weekend, including those of you with whom I disagree. No hard feelings
Chris ▲ Collapse
| | | | Patricia Rosas
United States
Local time: 10:56
Spanish to English
+ ...
In memoriam | the edges of ethics ... | Sep 2, 2006 |
Well, this is turning into one interesting discussion. As Enrique says, there is food for thought here.
I agree entirely that sacrificing quality can be both unethical and foolhardy (in terms of business), but I have made two exceptions that I can recall off the top of my head:
A client asked for a translation that was going to be heavily edited or even rewritten, so we agreed that (of course) I'd turn in as accurate a translation as I was capable of, but I would not ... See more Well, this is turning into one interesting discussion. As Enrique says, there is food for thought here.
I agree entirely that sacrificing quality can be both unethical and foolhardy (in terms of business), but I have made two exceptions that I can recall off the top of my head:
A client asked for a translation that was going to be heavily edited or even rewritten, so we agreed that (of course) I'd turn in as accurate a translation as I was capable of, but I would not spend the additional substantial time that it would have taken to make the prose "sparkle". I gave this person a small discount.
A social activist to whom I regularly give a 50% discount asked me to translate his resume and brief bio, and I told him I'd do it for free. I recall that I arrived at a point where I had to do a cost/benefit analysis on the worth of doing additional research, and I decided (and felt that I wasn't in any way being slipshod) that the resume and bio would stand on their own merits and that some tiny change I might make to one word was not going to influence how people understood or responded to his life story.
Up to a point, that happens with all my work--after all, I could go on researching and rewriting infinitely, but as with all writing projects, there has to be a point at which one says, "Okay. Here I stop." Otherwise, nothing would ever get into print.
One more thought: As an English-language editor, I FREQUENTLY have clients (mostly young PhDs) coming to me, saying, "I'm really broke [which is quite true], and so couldn't you edit my dissertation without spending too much time on it?" And like someone else said earlier in this thread, I have to say, "But, dear, which corner do you want me to cut? Should I ignore your spelling, your grammar, your lapses of logic, the factual errors...??"
[Edited at 2006-09-02 15:50] ▲ Collapse
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keshab
Local time: 23:26
Member (2006)
English to Bengali
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SITE LOCALIZER | Learning is priceless | Sep 2, 2006 |
In general, I am not agree with the view of CMJ_Trans. It is a very nice and interesting poll indeed! It uncoveres our mind and dedication to our profession. Please do not forget that 8.3% admit that their quality varies with the rate and 12.8% support that the variation can be depend!
CMJ_Trans wrote:
If, for more money, you can do better, then you should be working to this better standard all the time. Whether you like it or not, the implication is that for clients who pay low rates, anything goes.... If the price is too low, you should refuse the job. If for whatever reason, you are forced to accept despite the rates, then by accepting, you have tacitely agreed to do your best, whatever that may be. You have a moral duty to your client. As an end client, that's how I see it. And as a translator there is no reason for me to see it any other way.
Yes, I have faced this type of situation few years ago. A close friend requested me on behalf of his relative to translate a legal document in Bengali. He also stated that his relative is very poor and can afford only $22 for this. For the sake of my friend I was agree without knowing the volume of the document. It was a agreement letter of 12000 words!! Actually I did the job for free! As a proffessional It might be a foolish work but at the same time I believe that as a proffessional I have to do the job maintaining the same quality standard. I also believe that there must be a reward awaiting for you for whatever you have done in this world. I have done this job at lowest price but afterwards I got best prices- legal translation and terminology becomes so easy to me !!
I cannot thought to give up quality for bad prices but this also happenes. This is the life where good and bad ideas run together. Who wins. Guess it.
| | | | Ruben Berrozpe (X)
English to Spanish
| Not adjusting but conditions differ | Sep 2, 2006 |
I basically agree with what Steven said earlier so I won't insist in that line. I find the question interesting, but not only related to rate, but also to other factors, particularly to the difference between those clients who usually demand a higher quality and those who are less concerned about it. Coupled with the rate differences between clients I think this makes for an interesting debate. Especially in a profession with such adjusted fees as is translation.
Good question.
... See more I basically agree with what Steven said earlier so I won't insist in that line. I find the question interesting, but not only related to rate, but also to other factors, particularly to the difference between those clients who usually demand a higher quality and those who are less concerned about it. Coupled with the rate differences between clients I think this makes for an interesting debate. Especially in a profession with such adjusted fees as is translation.
Good question.
Rb ▲ Collapse
| | | | Ehab Tantawy
Local time: 20:56
Member (2006)
English to Arabic
+ ...
| Quality is the SPIRIT of any sucsessful Work (*_*) | Sep 2, 2006 |
Dear All
Let we think together how the work starts with any agency:
1-You put the rate you see that represents your qualifications and experiences ( From your point of View)
2-The Client Evaluates your work, in most cases, through a small test whatever how the test could be conducted.
3-Client decides to work with you.
4-Rate negotiation.
5-Agreement for the rate satisfies both of you.
6-Now you agree, so you sho... See more Dear All
Let we think together how the work starts with any agency:
1-You put the rate you see that represents your qualifications and experiences ( From your point of View)
2-The Client Evaluates your work, in most cases, through a small test whatever how the test could be conducted.
3-Client decides to work with you.
4-Rate negotiation.
5-Agreement for the rate satisfies both of you.
6-Now you agree, so you should do the work with the most available power of quality you have to finish the job even the rate is lower than yours becuase you already agreed and accepted to work with that rate at the negotiation step (4) so nobody obligated you to do the work to deviate from the quality principle all of us must put in front of his eyes at any work he should do in his life.
I hope my sharing to be liked from others.
Have a nice time.
Regards,
Ehab ▲ Collapse
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I chose "It depends" because I am fully with Ladislav :
Ladislav Filo wrote:
Just immagine a situation when you agreed with client a rate per word and then he says that he will pay nothing for repetitions and 100 percent matches. And there are many repetitions of German text "Aussenlager in" what can mean "External storage area in" or "External storage areas in", depending on context. Would you check and correct every one instance of this text for no charge? Our rates are fixed and the same for everybody and of course I always do my best while translating. But, unfortunately, I have no power on the agencies' weighting matrix (maybe most of you have as freelancers, but I do not as an employee). And when I see an agency paying 0 for 100% matches and repetitions, well I won't even have a look at those matches, should it worsen quality. I do not call it compromising quality, I call it refusing being as stupid as to work for free!
So when an agency has a very poor weighting with 0 pay for 100% matches and reps, there will be no review of those strings. If they pay kind of 10% for them, there will be a 'light' review : spellchecking and maybe quick own review. If they pay 25%, there will be a thorough review while translating + while review by a second person.
Some of you have wondered how it is possible to lower quality. Review is one very easy way to lower quality : you can have no review at all, have a self-review or have a review by a second person. I often see translations made by "professional" translators which contain misspellings that would have been removed if they had taken 5 minutes to run a spellcheck in Word. I suppose that not running a spellcheck can also be a means of lowering quality (and save time) if you think the price paid does not deserve it.
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NMR (X)
France
Local time: 19:56
French to Dutch
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Someone states above that he or she cannot imagine that a translator would adjust quality depending on rate. Some months ago, a client phoned me, asked for my rates (which are rather high, I am in a market niche). I explained the subjects I can handle and my rates. The client's comments: "Can't you deliver less quality?". He wanted me to be cheaper, but in the country where I am working the client is not allowed to impose or even suggest a price to a self-employed person. In this situation, and ... See more Someone states above that he or she cannot imagine that a translator would adjust quality depending on rate. Some months ago, a client phoned me, asked for my rates (which are rather high, I am in a market niche). I explained the subjects I can handle and my rates. The client's comments: "Can't you deliver less quality?". He wanted me to be cheaper, but in the country where I am working the client is not allowed to impose or even suggest a price to a self-employed person. In this situation, and in much other cases, it seems that lots of translators deliver two or more kinds of quality, especially when they are working for agencies. And when I work as a proofreader, I often see texts where the translator did no research to find specialized terminology, didn't proofread himself, didn't even read his text over, didn't see false friends, didn't adjust ponctuation, etc., probably thinking: "oh, it is just an agency, they will proofread, I don't have to do that", or "they're only paying XX, why should I?". And some agencies just want a first, rough translation, provided it is cheap.
[Edited at 2006-09-09 21:48] ▲ Collapse
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