| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9] > | Google Translate: The New Plague Thread poster: jmleger
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Claudio Porcellana (X) 
Italy
| a lapse of memory? | Dec 7, 2010 |
sorry, double post
[Modificato alle 2010-12-07 20:11 GMT]
| | | | jmleger
Local time: 09:43
English to French
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TOPIC STARTER | You are getting old Claudio | Dec 7, 2010 |
Sorry, haven't had time to address your long and very cogent letter. I am overworked. 14 hours days and no weekend rest, and I am still behind. Where is all the glamour they promised? Where are the dancing girls? Big gyp, if you ask me.
I did not touch on the question of privacy in my posting, but it's true that going to GT with a client's copy is a breach of the privacy due to him. Because we often handle fairly sensitive corporate stuff, our computers are password protected and cl... See more Sorry, haven't had time to address your long and very cogent letter. I am overworked. 14 hours days and no weekend rest, and I am still behind. Where is all the glamour they promised? Where are the dancing girls? Big gyp, if you ask me.
I did not touch on the question of privacy in my posting, but it's true that going to GT with a client's copy is a breach of the privacy due to him. Because we often handle fairly sensitive corporate stuff, our computers are password protected and cleaned daily for virus, spy/malware due as a condition of the drastic confidentiality agreements we have in place with a lot of clients. What's the point of implementing this layer of security if the translator we hire is going to put the copy out there on a forum such as GT? This opens a totally new can of gummy worms. Food for thought. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Claudio Porcellana (X)
Italy
| Google Translate: The New Plague | Dec 7, 2010 |
Hi JM and others
following my previous post, I think that 100% NDAs are to be completely re-written, adding the paragraphs below
and clearly all LSP must pay us more for the relevant issues, for example more time spent on paper dictionaries, more expenses to buy only paper references etc
1 - a translator/proofreader cannot search for data on Google, Bing or any other similar webpages
2 - a translator/proofreader must send only Verisign (or similar) en... See more
| | | | Claudio Porcellana (X)
Italy
| forum such as GT? | Dec 7, 2010 |
a forum?
I don't think it can be considered a forum
I know that in certain situations Google or others can pick-up your data, but do you really think that monolingual sentences are of any use for them?
unless for target advertising, but it's not the case here
entering your data here
http://translate.google.com
or using GT with SDL Studio, MemoQ or Wordfast (m... See more a forum?
I don't think it can be considered a forum
I know that in certain situations Google or others can pick-up your data, but do you really think that monolingual sentences are of any use for them?
unless for target advertising, but it's not the case here
entering your data here
http://translate.google.com
or using GT with SDL Studio, MemoQ or Wordfast (may be other recent CATs too)
is the same thing than putting them here
http://www.google.com
as in both situations you put YOUR data and catch GOOGLE's data
so where do you see a privacy breach?
a different matter is using the Translator's toolkit
then you can:
choose using the Google general memory, so feeding it with your translation
OR
choose using your own memories, that you can decide to NOT share using the relevant option, so NOT feeding AT ALL the Google MT with your translation
and as soon as you have some time, do a couple of tests
put an unpublished sentence here
http://www.google.com
then, every now and again, check if the sentence appears searching it again in the same place
put the same unpublished sentence here
http://translate.google.com
then, every now and again, check if the sentence appears searching it here
http://www.google.com
may be I was simply lucky, but both test were negative
Claudio ▲ Collapse
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| This is basically wrong when using GT | Dec 8, 2010 |
Laurent KRAULAND wrote:
*This* is basically wrong when using GT: translators are in breach of the implicit confidentiality they are supposed to guarantee to their clients.
Sharing contents with an automated, unprotected and worldwide system remains sharing.
This is true. However, GT (google translator, not the google translator kit) may be used as explicit url translator:
http://translate.google.com/#es|fr|Esto%20es%20una%20prueba%0A
Most Internet dictionaries are explicit url based too:
http://www.myjmk.com/index.php?tsearch=%20prueba&tdir=1
Any differences? I do not know (see them), really...
[Edited at 2010-12-08 09:49 GMT]
| | | | Laurent KRAULAND (X)
France
Local time: 16:43
French to German
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| The solution is elsewhere (OT) | Dec 8, 2010 |
On the topic of confidentiality and security, I can only say that most agencies I work with don't seem to know how to take care of related issues - that is: if they want to, which is another question. Some PM's apparently don't even know what the S in https stands for!
Sensitive material may, for example, be sent in a password-protected MS Word (!) file. And, most of the time, my suggestion to give at least a try to lightweight encryption software is met either with silence... See more On the topic of confidentiality and security, I can only say that most agencies I work with don't seem to know how to take care of related issues - that is: if they want to, which is another question. Some PM's apparently don't even know what the S in https stands for!
Sensitive material may, for example, be sent in a password-protected MS Word (!) file. And, most of the time, my suggestion to give at least a try to lightweight encryption software is met either with silence or with rejection.
My take on this is that the idea I previously mentioned in my reply to Rudolf will sooner or later be seen as the only acceptable solution, both for the translation process itself and for data security in general.
[Modifié le 2010-12-08 10:46 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | I have all my dictionaries on my harddisk or on paper. | Dec 8, 2010 |
Pablo Bouvier wrote: Laurent KRAULAND wrote:
*This* is basically wrong when using GT: translators are in breach of the implicit confidentiality they are supposed to guarantee to their clients.
Sharing contents with an automated, unprotected and worldwide system remains sharing. This is true. However, GT (google translator, not the google translator kit) may be used as explicit url translator: http://translate.google.com/#es|fr|Esto%20es%20una%20prueba%0A Most Internet dictionaries are explicit url based too: http://www.myjmk.com/index.php?tsearch=%20prueba&tdir=1 Any difference? I do not know, really... [Edited at 2010-12-08 09:43 GMT]
If you ask me, I really see a breach of the NDA, when translators enter whole confidential source texts or paragraphs into an online tool. And that's exactly what the MT integration of CAT tools does. Otherwise it could not offer the comparison between the MT results and the matches from the translator's TM.
When I search terminology with Google or even if I would search with Google translate or TAUS using the web interface (I know that in my language combinations it's not worth the effort, I tested it some times), I enter only terms consisting of some words. I can't even remember when I entered a whole sentence the last time.
And what kind of translator would I be, if I would not own my own library of paper dictionaries. With them I can be 150 % sure, that I don't break an NDA. I am building this library since the early 1990ies. Our whole huge book shelf all along the walls of our living-room is full of them (they look nice, that's why we show them to our guests and friends). My huge collection of well chosen electronic dictionaries are not online tools as well. All my electronic dictionaries are installed on my own hard disk. Every week I do a full backup of this disk (image of the whole disk) to make sure that I won't loose them.
I must admit that I could not sleep well, if someone somewhere in cyberspace could switch of my terminology recourses over night. Yes, sometimes I use http://iate.europa.eu/iatediff/SearchByQueryEdit.do or http://eur-lex.europa.eu/RECH_naturel.do, but my own dictionaries and TMs have much more importance for my translation work than the online thingies. And even when I enter search terms into EUR-Lex, it is never more than a chunk of a sentence. Nobody in the world could put the whole source text together out of these short chunks.
Only in translations for the European Commission, EUR-Lex sometimes becomes more important than my own recourses, but those texts mostly are public or are translated for publication purposes. And here it's the client who asks me to use online resources.
So much about my confidentiality policy and my terminology resources.
If the translation industry was in good health, there wouldn't be translators relying almost exclusively on online resources. They are hired and fired - these people don't see the need to invest into dictionaries. Translators without their own dictionaries I really can't consider as professionals. No ProZ.com "P"-badge will change that.
Power to those, who keep using common sense!
René Stranz-Nikitin
www.uersn.de
Please note that English is neither my target language nor one of my source languages.
| | | | | Post removed: This post was hidden by a moderator or staff member because it was not in line with site rule |
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| Post removed: This post was hidden by a moderator or staff member because it was not in line with site rule | | Two comments... | Dec 8, 2010 |
First: Would JM be annoyed if he received a perfect translation and the translator admitted to using GT?
Second: I can see from TTD's Blue Board page that there are about 9.000 comments by translators from all over the world. Why do you need to post so often on Proz, choosing a different translator every time? If you already have 10 translators, let's say, in the EN>IT pair, is it really that difficult to contact them to see if they are available? This way you would build up a stron... See more First: Would JM be annoyed if he received a perfect translation and the translator admitted to using GT?
Second: I can see from TTD's Blue Board page that there are about 9.000 comments by translators from all over the world. Why do you need to post so often on Proz, choosing a different translator every time? If you already have 10 translators, let's say, in the EN>IT pair, is it really that difficult to contact them to see if they are available? This way you would build up a strong relationship with a bunch of them and you wouldn't be "infected" by the New Plague...  But I suspect there is another reason... ▲ Collapse
| | | | Nicole Schnell
United States
Local time: 07:43
English to German
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In memoriam
Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL wrote: First: Would JM be annoyed if he received a perfect translation and the translator admitted to using GT? Second: I can see from TTD's Blue Board page that there are about 9.000 comments by translators from all over the world. Why do you need to post so often on Proz, choosing a different translator every time? If you already have 10 translators, let's say, in the EN>IT pair, is it really that difficult to contact them to see if they are available? This way you would build up a strong relationship with a bunch of them and you wouldn't be "infected" by the New Plague... But I suspect there is another reason...
Seconded. No further comment.
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Jeff Whittaker wrote:
Somewhere along the line convenience won out over confidentiality and now no one seems to give this a second thought.
Just like that somewhere along the line low prices became more important than quality:D
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| Post removed: This post was hidden by a moderator or staff member because it was not in line with site rule | jmleger
Local time: 09:43
English to French
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TOPIC STARTER | Why, oh why.... | Dec 8, 2010 |
First off, i don't think there are comments from 9000 people on our blueboard. Hyperbole should be used with a delicate touch lest it hurts people. You will note also that the vast majority of the comments posted about us by translators are elogious. We treat people right, they respond in kind. All is normal. Occasionnally, we take someone who has sabotaged a job to task, and they respond by posting a nasty comment, so be it. At other times people who feel they are entitled to be our one and so... See more First off, i don't think there are comments from 9000 people on our blueboard. Hyperbole should be used with a delicate touch lest it hurts people. You will note also that the vast majority of the comments posted about us by translators are elogious. We treat people right, they respond in kind. All is normal. Occasionnally, we take someone who has sabotaged a job to task, and they respond by posting a nasty comment, so be it. At other times people who feel they are entitled to be our one and sole translator for a language are displeased that we think otherwise. They punish us by doing the same thing as the previous ones. Again, so be it. If the bell curve is the norm in any endeavor we are way ahead of it. We seek new translators all the time because out clients are very diverse and we seek the best persons in the field (the best we can afford, admittedly). However, we do have translators in each language who deal with all the copy from one (or several) client(s), because they turned out to be a good fit and we don't want to upset that apple cart. Believe it or not, we actually like to have our habitués. I hope this puts an end to the speculations about how we operate (not the topic of the thread). We are no different than any other translation agency. We have provided work for freelancers for over 30 years through thin and thick. Not a bad record considering. My initial posting was about a trend we find disturbing. There have been some really interesting contributions and I am looking forward to more of them. I am glad when I can learn new things about my profession. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Nicole Schnell
United States
Local time: 07:43
English to German
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In memoriam | The basic principles of Performance Management | Dec 8, 2010 |
Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL wrote: Why do you need to post so often on Proz, choosing a different translator every time? If you already have 10 translators, let's say, in the EN>IT pair, is it really that difficult to contact them to see if they are available? This way you would build up a strong relationship with a bunch of them and you wouldn't be "infected" by the New Plague... But I suspect there is another reason...
Apparently certain basics still remain to be "translated" to some company owners, among them the great and wondrous miracles of "co-worker retention", how to keep co-workers "committed" and "supportive", how to be "credible", how to "keep talents" and how to "pay".
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