| Pages in topic: < [1 2] | Has Wordfast Pro been abandoned by its developer?—from the perspective of a macOS user Thread poster: Jeff Chapman
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| Really strange indeed | Oct 12, 2021 |
Jeff Chapman wrote:
- Provide actual menus and commands relevant to the app in the macOS menubar
It's indeed really strange that WFP doesn't provide a real menu bar. So no chance to access menu bar items via AppleScript and/or keyboard shortcuts.
Strange design decision.
Now I understand what you mean by 'not a real Mac app'.
[Edited at 2021-10-12 16:57 GMT]
| | | | Jeff Chapman 
Japan
Local time: 13:26
Japanese to English
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TOPIC STARTER | It is a Mac app, and yet... | Oct 13, 2021 |
German Dutch Engineering Translation wrote:
It's indeed really strange that WFP doesn't provide a real menu bar. So no chance to access menu bar items via AppleScript and/or keyboard shortcuts.
Strange design decision.
Now I understand what you mean by 'not a real Mac app'.
I'm wondering if Java-based apps running on the Mac all face the same issues. Java is more like a framework that allows apps to run within macOS, but I can't recall any Java-based apps that do allow full access to the app's commands via the menubar. It could be a restriction of Java itself, or maybe it's just something that the Wordfast developers could do but didn't bother doing, since the ribbon was already there.
Whatever the case, now these choices are coming back to bite Wordfast as evidenced by John's Di Rico's earlier post. They are apparently now working on enhancing accessibility for WF. If WF was already a native macOS app, or if they had paid more attention to offering menubar and command accessibility from the beginning aside from the ribbon and keyboard shortcuts, they would have had an easier time.
According to this page (https://www.oracle.com/technical-resources/articles/javase/javatomac.html), Java apps can run on macOS with menubar commands. I think it must have been a conscious design decision by Wordfast to make the app run more like a Windows app on macOS, rather than as a macOS app.
So, Wordfast Pro is a Mac app, in that it does run on macOS. It's just... not designed to take advantage of the best features than macOS has to offer. It's a compromise that likely reflects their decision to support multiple platforms (Windows, macOS and Linux) while keeping development costs to a minimum. Based on what John wrote, we shouldn't expect WF to ever be fully designed for macOS. Still, there are some things they've labored over (or simply neglected) for many years now. It makes you wonder where the future of standalone CAT tools like this is going, and how long WF will remain profitable enough to keep the app going.
Honestly, I'm hedging my bets on Wordfast. They don't seem as agile as the fresher, newer platforms like Memsource, even though they have been around for a long time. (Wordfast rarely updates their website and wiki as well... I think they just don't have the time for that. I know the feeling...) It's important for me to see Wordfast survive, but I will further keep investigating the alternatives.
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Jeff Chapman wrote:
I'm wondering if Java-based apps running on the Mac all face the same issues.
Nope. See my latest thread in the CT forum. (I’ll add more posts to that thread later this week.)
BTW: The previous thread there deals with some of your requests regarding WFP.
[Edited at 2021-10-13 03:10 GMT]
| | | | Jeff Chapman
Japan
Local time: 13:26
Japanese to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | My apologies. | Oct 13, 2021 |
Tom in London wrote:
You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.
Just saying.
I should have thanked you for at least making the suggestion, but I was more concerned with not getting the topic of the thread derailed.
Anyway, sorry if I sounded rude. I'm actually checking out CafeTran as well right now, as my knowledge of the platform is insufficient.
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| Linux user here | Jan 2, 2022 |
I'm one of the likely vanishingly few Linux users of WFP, but I'm also a little frustrated with the lack of response that I've gotten to support tickets. I haven't had any luck getting WFP to work on Ubuntu 21.10, particularly under a Wayland display session. I'm probably demanding too much, as I assume QA testing is done on older, more stable releases like Ubuntu 20.04 LTS.
For the past few months I've been having to use a Windows virtual machine (currently Windows 11 under KVM), t... See more I'm one of the likely vanishingly few Linux users of WFP, but I'm also a little frustrated with the lack of response that I've gotten to support tickets. I haven't had any luck getting WFP to work on Ubuntu 21.10, particularly under a Wayland display session. I'm probably demanding too much, as I assume QA testing is done on older, more stable releases like Ubuntu 20.04 LTS.
For the past few months I've been having to use a Windows virtual machine (currently Windows 11 under KVM), though even that's been giving me trouble lately with having to uninstall and reinstall WFP each time I use it. I'll wait until 6.7.0 is released before filing a ticket for that.
Also I've tried Cafe Trans Espresso, and was not impressed. The water tasted bad, if we're using the horse/water analogy.
[Edited at 2022-01-02 14:41 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Jeff Chapman
Japan
Local time: 13:26
Japanese to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | The vanishing state of WFP | Jan 3, 2022 |
Hi Andrew,
I'm one of the likely vanishingly few Linux users of WFP, but I'm also a little frustrated with the lack of response that I've gotten to support tickets.
I think Wordfast is woefully understaffed when it comes to people who can handle support tickets. To be fair, they usually get back to you quickly (within 24 hours or so) if it's an urgent, show-stopping matter. Anything else, and you may never hear from them.
For the past few months I've been having to use a Windows virtual machine (currently Windows 11 under KVM), though even that's been giving me trouble lately with having to uninstall and reinstall WFP each time I use it. I'll wait until 6.7.0 is released before filing a ticket for that.
As I'm a Mac and Windows user and have almost no practical experience with Linux, I'm not sure why you would need to uninstall and reinstall WFP every time you use it in your VM. What kind of issues were you having that required such a drastic measure?
Also I've tried Cafe Trans Espresso, and was not impressed. The water tasted bad, if we're using the horse/water analogy.
Haha, yes, CafeTrans Espresso is not quite as refined as most of its brethren in some aspects, but I did run it through a trial project last year, and I've been surprised by its flexibility. Like Wordfast, it runs under Java, so it isn't built natively for any of the platforms it runs under.
| | | | | | | Re: The vanishing state of WFP | Jan 4, 2022 |
Jeff Chapman wrote: For the past few months I've been having to use a Windows virtual machine (currently Windows 11 under KVM), though even that's been giving me trouble lately with having to uninstall and reinstall WFP each time I use it. I'll wait until 6.7.0 is released before filing a ticket for that. As I'm a Mac and Windows user and have almost no practical experience with Linux, I'm not sure why you would need to uninstall and reinstall WFP every time you use it in your VM. What kind of issues were you having that required such a drastic measure?
Hi Jeff,
So generally I will install WFP 6.6.0, launch it at the end of the install process, and it will work fine. Subsequent attempts to launch it will hang at the start up splash screen, which eventually reports that OpenJDK is not responding and I have to force close it. It will then produce an error report starting with "Java was started but returned exit code=-805306369" and going on to list a bunch of items related to Java. From what Googling I've done, this seems to be related to a program called Eclipse, but I can't find any solutions. Sometimes it will work again if I run the installer and choose "repair", other times I have to uninstall and/or delete folders before reinstalling.
I'm using Windows 11 on a virtual machine, but I don't see how that would affect things.
[Edited at 2022-01-04 14:19 GMT]
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| Re: Could you please elaborate? | Jan 4, 2022 |
I don't think I have anything very useful to tell you, seeing that I only used it briefly for an amateur project last year. I appreciated that it was fairly easy to install despite lacking a .deb file, Flatpak, or the like, but I found the layout ugly and confusing, and the work flow wasn't intuitive enough coming from WFP to make me want to keep using it.
I might give it another go to provide feedback to your other thread if I have time, since I appreciate that it is under active development, but I don't want to invest in another CAT tool especially since I only just purchased a license to WFP last September.
[Edited at 2022-01-04 05:53 GMT]
| | | | | Where is 6.7.0? | Jan 17, 2022 |
So about the problems I was having with Wordfast not wanting to start on me: it turns out that I just hadn't tuned QEMU/KVM properly. Once I optimized CPU settings and a few other things, my problems with Wordfast disappeared and Windows 11 performance vastly increased in general. When it comes to virtualization, Virtualbox seems to work better out of the box whilst QEMU/KVM is more integrated into Linux but requires a degree of tweaking and it's documentation is kind of all over the place. Such... See more So about the problems I was having with Wordfast not wanting to start on me: it turns out that I just hadn't tuned QEMU/KVM properly. Once I optimized CPU settings and a few other things, my problems with Wordfast disappeared and Windows 11 performance vastly increased in general. When it comes to virtualization, Virtualbox seems to work better out of the box whilst QEMU/KVM is more integrated into Linux but requires a degree of tweaking and it's documentation is kind of all over the place. Such is life in the Linux universe, but I digress...
According to the Wordfast Pro release notes, 6.7.0 is the latest version of the application, released last month. However, the version on the download page is 6.6.0. Did someone forget to link the latest version, or updated the release notes prematurely? Not really a good look when the development status is under question.
[Edited at 2022-01-17 02:53 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Why via Windows? | Jan 17, 2022 |
Andrew Hawkins wrote:
So about the problems I was having with Wordfast not wanting to start on me: it turns out that I just hadn't tuned QEMU/KVM properly.
Why aren’t you using the Linux version?
| | | | | Re: Why via Windows? | Jan 19, 2022 |
German-Dutch Engineering Translation wrote: Andrew Hawkins wrote:
So about the problems I was having with Wordfast not wanting to start on me: it turns out that I just hadn't tuned QEMU/KVM properly. Why aren’t you using the Linux version?
Because I haven't been able to get it started under Ubuntu 21.10. Support tickets that I've sent have not been responded to, but I'm assuming that the application is only tested on older, long-term support releases.
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| WFP and Linux: X11 vs Wayland // Customizing CafeTran Espresso to your liking | Jan 19, 2022 |
Hello Andrew,
Always nice to see fellow Linux translators
The Ubuntu developers made Wayland default in recent versions, but you can still switch back to X11 for now (as in just select a normal session in the login window). I am on Ubuntu 20.04 myself (Regolith actually, but it is based on Ubuntu), and I have an option to run Ubuntu Wayland, Ubuntu X11 and... See more Hello Andrew,
Always nice to see fellow Linux translators
The Ubuntu developers made Wayland default in recent versions, but you can still switch back to X11 for now (as in just select a normal session in the login window). I am on Ubuntu 20.04 myself (Regolith actually, but it is based on Ubuntu), and I have an option to run Ubuntu Wayland, Ubuntu X11 and Regolith.
https://fostips.com/switch-back-xorg-ubuntu-21-04/
Is there any compelling reason for you to use Wayland over X11 at this stage? What advantage does it offer?
I mean, since we're talking about your work computer and since WFP is your CAT tool of choice, doesn't it make sense to revert to X11 if it works well there? Do you have a problem running WFP under an X11 session on Ubuntu 21.10? I don't think this should happen…
Having to run your everyday CAT tool through a Windows VM (and reinstall it each time on top of that, for some obscure reason) is not my definition of fun, and seems counter-productive.
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As for CafeTran Espresso, I think it does run under Wayland (just tried it again, this time with no special script, and I had successfully done so in the past, with a custom launch script).
If the original CafeTran appearance is not appealing to you, I have made a document for new users on how to quickly customize it to your liking. For instance, setting Edit > Preferences > Appearance > GTK Look and feel, then View menu > Theme > System in the main translation interface, and possibly further adjusting the interface fonts (the UI itself will use system fonts with this setup) will give the program a quite integrated look: https://github.com/idimitriadis0/TheCafeTranFiles/wiki/6-Customizing-CafeTran
Of course, workflow-wise, CafeTran does some things differently to other tools and takes some getting used to, but coming from CafeTran Espresso, I had a similar reaction to WFP when I tried it…
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Also, just in case it went unnoticed, I've created a website presenting various tools for translators running GNU/Linux: https://translateonlinux.org.
Any feedback/contribution would be welcome (maybe via a ProZ message or on the dedicated ProZ thread under the "Linux OS / Free software" category).
Cheers! ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Re: WFP and Linux: X11 vs Wayland // Customizing CafeTran Espresso to your liking | Jan 19, 2022 |
Hi Jean,
Jean Dimitriadis wrote:
Is there any compelling reason for you to use Wayland over X11 at this stage? What advantage does it offer?
I mean, since we're talking about your work computer and since WFP is your CAT tool of choice, doesn't it make sense to revert to X11 if it works well there? Do you have a problem running WFP under an X11 session on Ubuntu 21.10? I don't think this should happen…
Having to run your everyday CAT tool through a Windows VM (and reinstall it each time on top of that, for some obscure reason) is not my definition of fun, and seems counter-productive.
Wayland seems to have better multi-monitor support, and handles fractional scaling better, which makes using my laptop's 13" WUXGA monitor more comfortable (I prefer 125% scaling at that size). In any case WFP won't open even in an X11 session, it just hangs on the startup splash screen. It worked fine under X11 with Ubuntu 21.04, and it even opened under Wayland there but with a few issues.
Having to reinstall WFP each time I used it wasn't fun at all. But as I mentioned above, I fixed the problem by adjusting my virt-manager settings. I need Windows for Microsoft 365, anyway.
Jean Dimitriadis wrote: As for CafeTran Espresso, I think it does run under Wayland (just tried it again, this time with no special script, and I had successfully done so in the past, with a custom launch script). If the original CafeTran appearance is not appealing to you, I have made a document for new users on how to quickly customize it to your liking. For instance, setting Edit > Preferences > Appearance > GTK Look and feel, then View menu > Theme > System in the main translation interface, and possibly further adjusting the interface fonts (the UI itself will use system fonts with this setup) will give the program a quite integrated look: https://github.com/idimitriadis0/TheCafeTranFiles/wiki/6-Customizing-CafeTran
Thanks for that, I'll try out those tips when I have some free time. I did download Cafe Tran Espresso, it runs pretty flawlessly under Wayland. I noticed that the latest version uses Java 17 instead of Java 11. I was even able to put it in the /opt folder and make a workable GNOME launcher shortcut. I think the only thing that it needs is some tweaking of the display fonts to match the rest of the OS.
I'd like to play around with CTE some more, I particularly like the Amazon Polly integration and the tabs for custom web resources. Those seem really useful. I'm just not really eager to buy another software license right now, even if it is only €80 per year.
Jean Dimitriadis wrote: Also, just in case it went unnoticed, I've created a website presenting various tools for translators running GNU/Linux: https://translateonlinux.org. Any feedback/contribution would be welcome (maybe via a ProZ message or on the dedicated ProZ thread under the "Linux OS / Free software" category).
I did see that, and was able to scroll through it a bit. Thanks for going to the effort!
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